[barsoomcore]

Originally posted by Wyvern
I think we should still make note of the fact that some vessels can only land on water and others can only land on land. This should be a part of the vessel stat block, as in Spelljammer. Attempting a landing on the wrong surface will result in an automatic crash. Also, crashing on water will be followed by sinking.

Agreed. This should be a part of a vessel stat block.

...it should be trivial to reassert control.... UNLESS a loss of control causes a vehicle to fail to travel its Minimum Speed.
You ought to mention somewhere that the Minimum Speed requirement doesn't apply in zero-gravity conditions.

Done. The Minimum Speed section now indicates that the requirement only exists in greater than zero gravity.

I still think that the take-off DC should be 10, to make it easier than landing.

This makes it automatic for any pilot given that they can take 10 on the check. But fair enough.

Loss of control on a natural 1.
There's one problem with this rule (which is the reason why I didn't suggest it myself); it means that all pilots, no matter what their skill level, suffer a 1 in 20 chance of losing control anytime they attempt a hard turn. Better to say that a natural 1 means that the pilot must make *another* Piloting check (or perhaps a Reflex save) at, say, DC 15 to avoid losing control.

I think we should just remove the possibility of losing control. If you're navigating down a narrow canyon and you fail your Hard Turn stunt check, you're pretty hosed whether or not you "lose control". It's not the losing control, it's the slamming into the canyon wall that's really going to ruin your day.

Even if the pilot takes two steer a vessel actions in one round, a vehicle cannot move any further than its Speed rating.
I think this sentence is unnecessary, since you already said the same thing quite clearly in the previous paragraph, and the one before *that*.

Okay, so I'm trying to be clear.

But agreed, and cleared up now.

I'd still like to see a stunt that allows the pilot to increase a vehicle's speed beyond its normal limit.

Maybe it should be a Feat rather than a Stunt? "Extreme Piloting" or "Redline Junkie" or something?

No single turn or slide may exceed the vessel's Max Turn rating, and all turns and slides combined may not exceed the vessel's Total Turn rating.
I still think it would be a good idea to add ", unless the pilot uses a Hard Turn stunt."

Yes. Done.

Vessels are considered to be at one of three altitudes: Low, Medium or High.
I'd still like to see a rule allowing vessels to fly at "Ground" level, to simulate barnstorming and other such maneuvers. It wouldn't require an actual Stunt, just a collision check each round to avoid crashing. This would be an exception to the rule that you don't need to make new collision checks when moving between squares occupied by the same object.

Agreed, and changed. Now vessels at Low altitude cannot make melee attacks against ground-based targets. To do so, a pilot must descend from Low altitude and make collision checks every round.

While we're on the subject, why shouldn't you make collision checks when moving between squares occupied by the same object? I'm changing that so that you do.

A vessel that continues plummeting.... will take triple normal crash damage upon impact...
What exactly does "triple normal" mean? Since crashing into the ground already inflicts double damage, does this mean that plummeting into the ground multiplies the damage by six? And if not, then what about plummeting into water? Does that also inflict triple normal damage?

Fixed. Colliding with the ground is simply that -- colliding with the ground. No special rule is needed.

The pilot must use at least one more steer a vessel action to control the vessel [after landing]... (some vessels may require more actions, depending on the difference between their minimum speed and their Speed ratings).
I think this would be clearer if you replaced "Speed ratings" with "current speed".

I've come up with a better description of the problem -- the issue is that the vessel must travel twice its Minimum Speed before the pilot can do anything but steer it -- once before and once after. This may take more than one round for some vessels. I have changed the text to better present this issue.

Incidentally, this raises the question of acceleration and deceleration. It's hardly realistic for a ship of any maneuverability class to be able to stop on a dime. So how do you propose we handle this?

I don't think we should attempt to model that. It gets very complicated and I don't see that it will provide much playability. We allow characters to start and stop on a dime (ever tried to stop suddenly when running full tilt?) so why not vessels?

On his next action, he travels 60 feet in a straight line and touches down right at the top end of the runway.
The way this is written, it seems as though the length of the runway doesn't matter when making an extended landing, since you don't touch down until the last round.

That's correct. It is the length of the approach, not the length of the runway, that matters. The trick is to reduce your speed as much as possible, prepare your approach, so that on touchdown all you have to do is brake. I don't see that hurtling down the runway after touchdown makes the touchdown itself easier.

You forgot to mention hovering vehicles (those with a minimum speed of zero). As I said before, I think they should get a flat +5 bonus to take-off and landing checks if they spend a full round on them.

I don't consider hovering vessels a special case. A hovering vessel can gain a landing bonus by maintaining its position above the landing pad (moving at its Minimum Speed of zero) for three rounds and gain a +6 bonus, which I think adequately represents the easier landing made by making small, careful adjustments and descending slowly.

Since if we make the take-off DC 10 any pilot can take off automatically, I don't see why a bonus would ever be required. Is a helicopter significantly more simple to take off in than a fixed-wing craft? I suspect not.

By the way, are flying creatures required to make take-off and landing checks too?

Yes. Of course they get a natural +8 bonus on all Piloting skill checks, so they can take off and land automatically.

Anyone or thing not secured on the vessel must make a Balance check to maintain their footing or a Climb check to retain their grip, depending on the situation.
This could still use some clarification regarding which check to make when (i.e. do you have to have climbing gear to make a Climb check, or do you simply need something you can grab onto?). Also, what happens to unattended objects? Do they automatically fail their check?

Thanks, covered now. Objects can be secured, prompting a Use Rope check.

Can you take 10 on Hard Turn, Hard Climb, Shake Loose or Complex Stunt checks?

No. Noted.

I think that the Hard Climb stunt would fit most naturally in-between Hard Turn and Dive Attack.

Done.

How do you suggest dealing with dives and climbs in a zero-gravity environment?

It might be best to include in an environment's description (or an environment TYPE'S description) which Stunts and conditions are possible or impossible. So we could have an environment type called "zero-gravity" which does not allow for the plummeting condition, does not include Altitude, nor the Hard Climb or Dive Attack Stunts. We might want to apply modifiers to some of these things depending on the environment (for example, reduced gravity reduces damage from collisions with the ground).

Will post revised chapters later.