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[barsoomcore]

Originally posted by BlackJaw
So an inteligent vehicle (golem ship, living hull, undead etc)is capable of doing certain things within the limitations of its stats.

The limitation is: No move actions and no Dexterity. This means that any Dex-based skill cannot be used by a vehicle. This would of course include Piloting.

It also means that vehicles can gain levels...

Sure, why not?

BUT all classes provide saving throw bonuses (ack OUR reflex save system!) and BAB.

Right. So we have a couple of choices. We could say that a vehicle always fails its Reflex save -- the same way an object or undead always fails its Fort save. Class levels have no effect -- a vehicle will always fail a Reflex Save.

I like this notion. It's congruent with the "No Constitution" description of undead and objects. And frankly, Reflex Saves are unlikely to be that big a deal to most vehicles. It's not like they'll be setting off traps or anything...

Or we could say that vehicle just makes its own Reflex save -- which it will automatically fail (just like any object automatically fails a Fort save) unless it possesses a Reflex save bonus (i.e. it has at least one class level). So a 747 ALWAYS fails its Reflex Save.

I have some sympathy with that system. It's reasonably simple, even simpler than my next suggestion:

Vehicles use their pilot's Reflex save bonus or their own, which ever is higher.

I don't like that one. Certainly a vehicle without a pilot should always fail its saving roll. The final suggestion is:

Vehicles always use their pilot's Reflex save, adjusted by their Handling Modifier.

This is the system currently agreed to and while it has some advantages, I'm starting to lean to the first one -- that vehicles just always fail a reflex save.

Also, vessel weapons have operators... and some more then one. I can't imagine a gollem ship being able to work a cannon with no arms!

Part of the description of a vessel weapon needs to be what sort of operator is required -- local or remote. A vehicle can only use a vessel weapon that allows remote operators. A vessel weapon that requires more than one operator can only be used if the vehicle has the Multi-Attack feat.

Vessel weapons are also listed seperatly from normal weapons (which I'd guess most vehicles have none, and if they did; how does a vehicle with no DEX use one?).

Right. A vehicle has no natural weapons. It can only attack with remotely operated vessel weapons.