Go Back   EN World D&D / RPG News

Gamers Online Now: 1,080
177 members and 903 guests
Most users ever online was 4,029, 8th April 2009 at 05:04 PM.
Twitter Updates
Follow Morrus on Twitter

Follow us on Twitter!
Please Visit Our Sponsors
Latest Reviews
The Rite Preview
The Rite Review by Rite Publishing.

This product is 56 pages long and free. Cover, credits, intro and ToC take up 4 pages. I counted 17 pages of adds many of them for other Rite... [Read More]
Evocative City Sites Lorn's Entrepot (Abandoned Warehouse)
Evocative City Sites Lorn's Entrepot (Abandoned Warehouse) by Rite Publishing. I was given this product for the purposes of this review. This product is 47 pages long. Cover, Credits, two pages of... [Read More]
101 Feats
Feats 101 by Rite Publishing. I was given this product for the purposes of this review. I have not yet played using these feats my review is based on reading the feats and checking a few against... [Read More]
The Plane Below: Secrets of the Elemtnal Chaos
The Plane Below: Secrets of the Elemental Chaos is a 4e D&D product describing some of the different planes in the 4e Cosmology. The book is a typical hard bound book that Wizards of the Coast... [Read More]
101 Magical Weapon Properties
First I would like to say I got the PDF free for purposes of this review.

This product is 25 pages long. 1 page for cover, 1 for credits, 1 OGL at the end and 1 page of weapon table... [Read More]
The world's premier fan community for Dungeons & Dragons news and more!
Older News | Newsletter | Subscribers Content | Subscribe | War of the Burning Sky™ |  SPACE FIGHT!™ Send me a scoop!
Guidelines
Thread: D & D Megadungeon Sandbox and 4E
View Single Post
Old 30th October 2008, 02:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
Tav_Behemoth
95% parent, 5% writer
 
Tav_Behemoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: n y c
Posts: 558
Tav_Behemoth Hobgoblin Soldier (Lvl 3)
I think y'all are on to some important issues here. If your group is willing, my inclination would be to approach them by houseruling 4E to bring it more in line with the old-school rules that gave rise to the megadungeon style of play. In particular:

- Experience points are awarded primarily for finding treasure and surviving long enough to bring it out of the dungeon.

- Wandering monsters are a constant hazard with a fixed and more-or-less known to the players rate of occurence, so that the decision to search every cranny is balanced against the risk of an unplanned encounter.

- Magic items are mysterious (there's no easy recourse to the identify spell) and as likely to be a bane as a boon (e.g. cursed items, intelligent swords with conflicting agendas, etc.).

The reason that these are important to the megadungeon is that the dungeon is supposed to be an intrinsically dangerous environment, at best a constant impersonal hazard and at worst an enemy in itself. Mapping is essential because nothing is worse than losing your way back to the surface. Your initial focus isn't clearing out every room for experience like in a CRPG (although that may happen over time); the megadungeon should be about going in, exploring, and making strategic choices (do we open the door with the spooky noises, or push on further; at what point will the depletion of our resources, from HP to torches, force us to turn back given that we're likely to face a number of wandering monsters just trying to return to safety) balanced against the certain knowledge that the megadungeon is full of things that will eat you for lunch if you're not both careful and lucky.

If killing monsters is the main source of experience as per the 4E RAW, there's going to be a strong incentive for the players to treat each encounter as the next step towards leveling up - not a potentially much-more-lethal-than-expected hazard that's better negotiated using brains rather than brawn. I'd eliminate or sharply reduce the XP award from monsters, replacing it with XP from treasure awarded (or quests if you want to be a little less old-school).

This ties into the wandering monster issue - if the PCs are noisily bashing down doors, you want the resultant increased risk of a wandering monster to be a punishment, not a gift of XP. This is especially true because the random factor might make the gift a trivial gimme - fire beetles! - or a Trojan horse - trolls! - so again it's important for the players not to have a system-reinforced expectation that monsters are there to be killed. The other 4E problem with wandering monsters is that combat takes so much longer than in the old-school. You want the fire beetle encounter to be a punishment for foolhardy play in that it dings the PCs by a few hit points, not in that it forces the players to wade through an hour of dull (because ultimately unchallenging) melee. Mike Mearls has a blog post about using skill challenges to handle wandering monsters - I think at his Keep on the Gaming Lands blog, although there's also a related idea in his discussion of converting the G series at the Wizards site.

Finally, magic items are a problem, as you've noted, because one virtue of the megadungeon is that it's entirely up to the players which direction to head, making it hard for the DM to parcel out the items 4E expects. And that expectation is counter to the old-school feel; a cursed item should be like "well, I invaded someone's house and caught athlete's foot from the shoes I stole, I guess that's what I deserve" instead of "these shoes I got for my birthday have a fungus?!?" What I'd do is to abstract out magic item enhancement bonuses, similar to how it's done for NPCs. When you hit second level, choose one item (armor, weapon, implement, etc) to receive a +1 enchantment bonus, which is conceptualized as just another benefit of increased experience; it's that you're better with your sword, not that your sword started to glow. At third through fifth levels, choose another item; at sixth level, one item gets bumped to +2; and so on. The wondrous items you find in the dungeon will contribute the other aspects of 4E items (e.g. item powers), and since players are reassured that the PCs will keep up with the expectations built into the system, they ought to be a lot more open to items that have unknowable / undesirable / unreliable "special" effects.
__________________
I play and DM old-school D&D with the New York Red Box, have written first- and third-party stuff for 3E and 4E, and blog about all of the above at The Mule Abides - most recently "D&D Was A Wargame: I Do Not Think That Means What You Think It Means".
Tav_Behemoth is offline   Reply With Quote
 

And yet another word from our sponsors
Community Supporter Subscriptions

LATEST EXCLUSIVE CONTENT FOR SUBSCRIBERS



Visit Our Sponsors
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Site Contents © 2008 ENWorld
PHP Ajax Multimedia Web Framework © 2008 Digital Media Graphix
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

"Vault Data" powered by VaultWiki v2.5.1.
Copyright © 2008 - 2010, Cracked Egg Studios.
diabetic desserts recipes recipes Diabetic Soups Holiday Pizza Recipes Popcorn Recipes Recipes For Microwave Pasta Recipes Casserole Recipes Chili Recipes Curry Recipes Crockpot Recipes Apples Recipes Bread Recipes Vegetarian Recipes Vegetable recipes Desserts Recipes Appetizers Ethnic Recipes Meat Dishes Barbecue Recipes Sauces Recipes Marinade Recipes Low Fat Recipes Frugal Gourmet Kitchen Classics Recipes On The Grill Cook Books Seafood Recipes Cajun Recipes Breads Low Fat Low Fat Breads Bread Machine Recipes Yeast Breads Quick Breads Fat Free Vegetarian Salad Recipes Eggplant Recipes Radish Recipes Tomato Recipes Jalapeno Recipes Potato Recipes Lettuce Recipes Cabbage Recipes Beans Ambrosia Recipes Biscotti Recipes Desserts Low Fat Cookie Recipes Cheesecake Recipes Cake Recipes Pie Recipes Muffin Recipes Custard Recipes Best Appetizers Appetizers Low Fat Salsa Recipes Dip Recipes International Recipes Afghan Recipes Alaska Recipes French Recipes German Recipes Greek Recipes Italian Recipes Spanish Recipes Thai Recipes Korean Recipes Chinese Recipes Mexican Recipes Indian Recipes Beef Recipes Pork Pork & Ham Pork Butts Pork Chop Recipes Pork Ribs Rulled Pork Poultry Recipes Stews Recipes Ground Beef Barbecue Grill Barbecue Smoker All Purpose Sauce BBQ Sauce Barbecue Sauce Carolina BBQ Sauce Pickle Recipes Marinades Smoking Low Fat Appetizers & Dips Low Fat Breakfast Low Fat Cakes Low Fat Cheesecakes Low Fat Cookies Low Fat Desserts Low Fat Fish & Seafood Low Fat Meats Low Fat Pasta Low Fat Pies Low Fat Salads Low Fat Sandwiches Low Fat Sauces & Condiments Low Fat Sides Low Fat Soups Low Fat Vegetarian Baker's Dozen Taste of Home Recipe Book Bon Appetit Cookbook Blacktie Cookbook Buster Cook Book Cookbook USA Cook Book Cook Book Sara's Cookbook Sara's Cookbook Appetizers and Dips Poultry recipes Diabetic recipes Holiday recipes Miscellaneous recipes 110 recipes 1986 Usenet cookbook 2900 recipes Cyberrealm recipes Great sysops of world Specialty recipes Ceideburg recipes Cheese recipes Chili recipes Fruits recipes Garlic recipes Great chefs of NY Londontowne recipes Raisins recipes Recipes for kids US Food Vegetarian recipes Bread recipes Drinks Meat Dishes Brisket recipes Caribou recipes Chicken recipes Filet mignons recipes Pork recipes Swordfish recipes Turkey recipes Pasta recipes Uncategorized recipes Ethnic recipes Canada recipes English recipes Ethiopia recipes Germany recipes Greece recipes Mexican recipes Philippines recipes Welsh recipes Microwave recipes Soups recipes Vegetable recipes Asparagus recipes Barley recipes Brown rice recipes Lentil recipes Mushrooms recipes Salads recipes Wild rice Desserts recipes Cakes recipes Chocolate recipes Cookies recipes Ice cream recipes