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[Phaezen]

Originally Posted by justanobody

How exactly do you propose to give these "old school style" elements back to the game under 4th edition?

-remove the ability for everyone to heal themselves

There is no second wind, possibly increase the nuber of healings a leader can do during an encounter, and done.

Alternatively, increase pc hitpoints by 25% and have healing surges only do 20% of your new total.

Originally Posted by justanobody

-remove the powers system and give the thief back the ability to be a thief

Powers system is built into 4e, this can't be done so easily. What exactly is the 4e rogue missing in your opinion? His skills allow him to do anything a 1e or becm thief could do. He can also customise hiss skill selection to do different things.

Originally Posted by justanobody

-give the classes back some dignity of being something special and have a purpose to themselves outside of just positions in combat

Can you do that with 4th and it keep its integrity to it? What would you need to do to the monsters to counterbalance these alterations to PCs?

A class in 4e defines your combat abilities, as far as I have seen in previous editions (I have played BECM, 2nd Ed and 3.x) this has always been the case . Your out of combat abilities are defined by skills, some of the feats and how you play your character. Again, not wanting to be dismissive of your point, but explain what exactly your point is, how should the class define itself outside of combat?

Originally Posted by justanobody

What if the fighter player doesn't want to have to take time to think about healing during a fight and just wants to let the party healer take of it after the fight so he can focus more on smashing heads?

I am not too sure how 1 healing surge during combat reads as the fighter thinking about healing. Usualy my fighters in previous editions are thinking about healing all the time, positioning close enough to the cleric, have potions accesable in bandoleers etc.

Originally Posted by justanobody

What if the cleric wants to be the doctor of the group and focus on keeping them healthy through healing and making them work together and not act in a foolish manor by just charging in?

Once again, clerics in my experience, at least before 3.x, have generally always been in the thick of things. Good armour and needing to be close to the fighters mean't that you had to be mixing it up with the monsters in most cases. If you don't want to be up close and personal, concentrate on the ranged powers, and pack some throwing weapons.

Originally Posted by justanobody

What if the wizard doesn't want to just lob magic missile or damaging spells, but wants to do things with magic besides just 3 direct damage with a lighting bolt, or X damage with a fireball?

I combat, direct damage is what the 4e wizard does, but a lot his spells also alter the battlefield with zones, ongoing effects etc. Be creative with your spell use. For out of combat, there is a growing list of rituals to use, the long casting time and cost means you wont arbitrarily be stepping in other character niches when it comes to skill use.

Originally Posted by justanobody

What if the party wants to collect money to make their own things rather than find exactly what they need to get through the game? Make their own weapons, fix their own armor, etc.

Rituals, skill challenges and DM fiat. You want your fighter to be a smith, speak to your dm and agree on how to go about it. BEfore 2e there weren't rules for this either. As for crafting magical items, there is a ritual you can use, and if you really want to go old school on this, roleplay looking for rare ingrediants and formulas.

Originally Posted by justanobody

What if they just want to hoard money and art objects rather than spend it on the latest magic items?

Awesome, then do it. Your character wants to build a keep? Speek to the dm about costs and start doing it. All those gems and art you find in your adventures? Don't sell them. If you want your character to invest in merchant cartels, do so. This is where the roleplaying comes into the game.

Originally Posted by justanobody

There is a lot that is subjective about what "old school style" play is, and 4th edition will not easily accommodate all players that want an old school style.

It touches on on aspect with a focus on combat, but loses in many other areas some of the flexibility of the system of 1st edition and back.

2nd edition and 3rd are of course denied plausible under the systems of 4th edition because how tight knit it is.

So it really depends on what you are looking for out of the "old school style".

At the end of the day, play the system you want to play, no-one is going to stop you from doing it. If you want to import something from a previous (or more current) system, discuss with the other people in your group and houserule. The rules in D&D are not fixed and governed by a world body with penalties imposed if you break them. Do what works for your group and for the campaign you are playing.

Phaezen