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[Jasperak]

Originally Posted by ProfessorPain

I think there is middle ground here. Obviously in discussions of morality, you are dealing with perspective. To the green tribe that lives in the moutnains slaughtering babies isn't evil, but to the red tribe living in the plains, slaughtering babies is most definitely evil. So there we have it, human moral systems are a product of individual cultures. But, I still think that doesn't mean all moral systems are equal, and therefore all morality just a matter of taste. There are consequences for the moral systems we embrace, and throwing your arms up in the air because there are so many, isn't a terribly good solution. I am not going to sit here and dictate what I think is good or bad to everyone; but I will say one way of life is better than another. There is some wiggle room: Situational Ethics. We may not be able to say, doing X is always wrong, because there may well be a situation where X is actually the best choice, but we can say that there are core principles we should use to guide our actions, and that some core princples are better than others.

Sorry, just had to get that out of the way.

On the subject of orcs. Their evil. I don't think they are genetically predisposed to evil though, as there have been cases of orcs (and half orcs) raised by human parents who went on to become Lawful Good Paladins. But I think there culture is evil, and most deserving of our contempt. I mean they view killing as an end, not a means. And they worship Grumsh (an evil god). How can their culture not be evil?

I'm not talking about human moralism here; I'm talking about GAME moralism. There are better places to discuss human moralism like philosophy class. Absolutes in game morality will generally work better. In my opinion there is little gained if the DM questions if his orcs are evil or not.

When my definition of evil does not follow the morally relativistic DM's definition, we have no common ground and his vision of the campaign world cannot match mine. Often times they do not have the ability to make a final judgment about what is evil or not. When I can define evil and the DM cannot, we generally cannot play together.

In my experience, morally relativistic DMs crowd their worlds with shades of grey and almost never have the ability to pull it off without them looking like sophomoric attempts at questioning the nature of evil. Those kinds of DMs are better suited to writing puerile fan-fics where they are easily ignored.

BTW, does anyone know what the alignment of the orc in Cook's Orc With Pie adventure is?