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[baulderstone]

Originally Posted by coyote6

I can think of several -- M&M, GURPS, FATE/Spirit of the Century, Twilight: 2000, Traveller -- all can let you start out roughly equal to at least some fictional heroes (some are more badass than others, of course). In those systems, you can at least always build a starting character that's equal to or better than, say, the average NPC soldier or cop.

In Deadlands Reloaded, the Gunman NPC type has more attribute points than a starting PC; the officer soldier and the "LAPD" (Guardian Angels) are both beyond starting PCs. Those all seem like viable starting PC types to me for a high-action game -- gunman, Cavalry Lt., ex-cop. Even the "typical pirate" in 50 Fathoms looks to be equal to a starting PC, roughly. In a piratey game, I'd expect PCs to be better than the mook pirates.

Like I said, it's just not what I expected. Fortunately, it's easy to fix.

But, that really isn't true at all. The Gunman and typical pirate are extras. That Wild Die makes a big difference for PC's. Think of it this way: when you are generating a character, before you have even spent one point on attributes, you already have a free d6 in every single one of them due to your Wild Die. If you only buy a d4 in Vigor, you are already tougher than the Gunman, who rolls just a d6, without a Wild Die. Once you have spent all 5 of your points to raise attributes, the extra is left in the dust.

Then you you factor in bennies. Player have their own private supply. The GM probably won't spend any on a lowly mook. The Gunman will also go down after taking only one wound. The PC takes 4 wounds to put down. And even then the might stay up if they get a raise on the incapacitation roll, althought that is a long-shot.

In a one-on-one battle the Novice PC will take down the gunman almost every time.

I'll concede that characters don't start out as powerful as some of the more powerful pulp characters out there, but the game encourages starting characters at a higher rank if that fits the feel of the campaign. It's much better than the alternative, which would be a system which didn't allow you to play novice characters at all.

I think some people have a different view of pulps than I do, too. I remember them as having heroes that were tough, but still frequently took a beating, and frequently suffering temporary defeats and getting captured when out-numbered, but managing to prevail in the end. A lot of people seem to feel that pulp is all-about invincible heroes who never fail at anything.