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Old 1st July 2008, 06:48 PM   #81 (permalink)
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malcolm_n Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
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I am running a 3.5 Forgotten Realms game. We are discussing converting it to 4th. One of the players is playing a druid and he was not happy when 4th came out without a druid. I will be giving him your druid to look at and I anticipate converting the game to 4th within the next couple of weeks. I will give it a couple of sessions to gameplay to see how things go and report back to you... looking at the end of July or beginning of August.

A game I am playing in converted to 4th two weeks ago and we are liking it so I don't think my players will have any problems...

Is there anyone working on a barbarian??? I have a player in my game currently running a barbarian... It would be nice for him to continue with one even though he is willing to play another race and class...

Tks for all the awesome work everyone is doing on this site.
Give me a quick overview of the barbarian's build, feats, level, etc. I can throw something (if not a whole class) together real quick for you.

Upon completing the druid, I've been working on a project I'll probably post soon enough. It's a comparison tool that utilizes Excel for people building classes. You select the type and level of power (defender encounter 13 for example) and it gives you a list of options based on other similar powers. It also takes into consideration if you're building a hybrid and pegs the powers down a level grade (13 to 7 for example).
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Old 1st July 2008, 07:03 PM   #82 (permalink)
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Is there anyone working on a barbarian???
4e Berserker Class (a work in progress) - updated 07/02/08
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Old 4th July 2008, 01:35 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Bumping; gonna come up with some druid friendly items
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Old 5th July 2008, 05:17 PM   #84 (permalink)
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First off let me congratulate you on the effort that went in to making this. Its obviously a very difficult concept to fix, as evidenced by the lack of hybrids (of any kind) in the original PHB.

I am recreating a story I originally started in 3.5 that includes a PC that is a druid, so I was excited to see the conversion here. In trying to mirror the character I had before I chose a rites-focused druid. When I got to the point where I picked the extra encounter power though I realized there are only two non-wild encounter powers anyway. Am I missing something? Misinterpreting something? What additional encounter power would I take?

Also, as a rites-focused druid I have 2 at wills that I can use without shifting into my weaker wildshape form (which I at 1d4+STR I cant imagine Id EVER do) and both are against Fort (making me very ineffective against Brutes with high CON and STR scores)
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Old 5th July 2008, 08:41 PM   #85 (permalink)
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First off let me congratulate you on the effort that went in to making this. Its obviously a very difficult concept to fix, as evidenced by the lack of hybrids (of any kind) in the original PHB.

I am recreating a story I originally started in 3.5 that includes a PC that is a druid, so I was excited to see the conversion here. In trying to mirror the character I had before I chose a rites-focused druid. When I got to the point where I picked the extra encounter power though I realized there are only two non-wild encounter powers anyway. Am I missing something? Misinterpreting something? What additional encounter power would I take?

Also, as a rites-focused druid I have 2 at wills that I can use without shifting into my weaker wildshape form (which I at 1d4+STR I cant imagine Id EVER do) and both are against Fort (making me very ineffective against Brutes with high CON and STR scores)
Wild shape is more utility and last resort than anything with a rites focused druid. As to the Rites focus itself, all characters only get one encounter power of their choice at first level. The rites focused druid gets 2. You have a good point on them targeting Fortitude specifically, but later spells target different defenses as well. Yes, the rites druid won't be as good at striking brutes at level 1, so he may be better leaving them to the wizard or warlock while he picks off the skirmishers and leaders. I'll look to come up with a couple non-fortitude powers for level 1 and post them along with the magic items I've been working on soon.
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Old 6th July 2008, 02:57 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Your option isn't bad; but it is complicated. Yes, as written, the abilities are a little more narrow, but that's because of balancing. Bear in mind that you can be a defensive focused druid and take offensive attacks for more damage output; and vice versa. How would your suggestion play toward the powers with benefits for having chosen one path over the other?
Fair point.

I actually have another question may have already been asked in regards to size.

If you base size is small how does that affect wild shape and it feat progression ? or doesn't it i.e. small wildshapes into a medium creature as base ? However if small goes to small as base .......
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Old 6th July 2008, 07:49 AM   #87 (permalink)
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I like the class overall, and the formatting is very nice.

A couple comments based on my first reading:

- Goodberries is an awesome concept with a less than ideal implementation. At level 2 when you take it, you can heal, with perfect stats, up to 5 hit points for a cost of 1 standard action and 5 minor actions. At level 30 it can heal close to 100, but at the cost of 1 standard action and 9 minor actions. I would strongly consider making this scale in a x + yz method, like 5 hit points + 1/2 level, or something like that.

- Giant Vermin seems to imply the vermin can be killed, but it does not give defensive stats.

- Go for the eyes seems a bit much, as I would say most monster encounters can't reasonably be counted on to have a healer, which means it is a permanent blind. And it is a two-part condition, so even with a healer, it will take a while. I might suggest changing to a blind (save ends) with no conditional.

- The druid seems very versatile, with great defender, striker, controller, and leader abilities. Depending on preferences, they might be a tad too good. I can't say this for sure without a true playtest though.
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Old 6th July 2008, 11:31 AM   #88 (permalink)
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I like the class overall, and the formatting is very nice.

A couple comments based on my first reading:

1- Goodberries is an awesome concept with a less than ideal implementation. At level 2 when you take it, you can heal, with perfect stats, up to 5 hit points for a cost of 1 standard action and 5 minor actions. At level 30 it can heal close to 100, but at the cost of 1 standard action and 9 minor actions. I would strongly consider making this scale in a x + yz method, like 5 hit points + 1/2 level, or something like that.

2- Giant Vermin seems to imply the vermin can be killed, but it does not give defensive stats.

3- Go for the eyes seems a bit much, as I would say most monster encounters can't reasonably be counted on to have a healer, which means it is a permanent blind. And it is a two-part condition, so even with a healer, it will take a while. I might suggest changing to a blind (save ends) with no conditional.

4- The druid seems very versatile, with great defender, striker, controller, and leader abilities. Depending on preferences, they might be a tad too good. I can't say this for sure without a true playtest though.
1- Awesome. Thank you for pulling out the max potential on goodberry , so a dwarf demigod with 20 Wis starting can get up to +9 mod = 9 berries Assuming the character takes and 15 hp each as a minor action. If his con was also 28 at that point and he took defensive focus, he'd have 232 HP with healing surges granting him +58 HP apiece as a minor action for a second wind. It takes 4 rounds of minor actions, or 1 dedicated round and 1 minor action to heal 60 hp with goodberries. I think that'd be a decent trade. Maybe I misunderstand and you say it's weak? idk, free heals without need of the cleric is pretty good. and a standard hit from a creature of that level will deal an average 28 points damage, give or take ~10 for role. So, there are both my arguments for the power level of goodberry being high vs. low.

2- Per the PHB (or maybe dmg), if a conjuration can be attacked, it uses your defenses unless otherwise specified.

3- Good point on Go for the Eyes. It was an early mechanic I'd played with for the druid that I never changed by final cut. Consider it changed when I update next to include items and a few powers. Question though, isn't a second wind considered a heal, and don't monsters get them?

4- IDK how much of a controller or leader he is. At lower levels I went for basic I tank or I attack powers on all three fronts with a notable drop in power for anything that didn't fit (like goodberry being about half the value of a cleric's heal but spread out to several people). By about 15 I started taking Warlock, Rogue, and Fighter powers, reflavoring and pushing them up a peg (ie level 13 vs. 17 for the druid). Any leader or controllerish powers at that point are strictly within the bounds of those three classes. Let me know, though, if you find differently.

THANK YOU again for the very well put feedback.
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Old 6th July 2008, 12:18 PM   #89 (permalink)
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First, thanks for putting forth all the work required to design this. Over all, I really like what you've created. I especially like the caster-Druid. I'm currently preparing to run your Druid in 2 different campaigns, so soon I'll have some (hopefully) helpful feedback.

However, I have one complaint, which I hope simply stems from a misunderstanding on my part. Wild Shape states that your gear melds into your new form, effectively becoming non-functional, except for "magical enhancement bonuses and properties". As far as I can tell, this cripples the Druid in a way that the bonuses from Wild Shaping do not compensate for. Was it intentional that Wild Shaping prevents the Druid from gaining that critical +2/+3 Proficiency bonus from wielding a weapon when making attacks vs AC? It seems like a melee "Shifter" Druid will always lag significantly behind other characters because Wild Shape prevents him from benefiting from weapon Proficiency bonuses. The +1 bonus to attacks while in Offensive form doesn't offset this handicap --a problem that is worsened when one sees how pitifully low an AC any Druid will have while in Offensive Form.

My primary character is a "Tank" Druid (Defensive Focus), and his fighting abilities at level 1 are, to say the least, unimpressive. As the party "Tank", he will never be able to afford to choose Offensive Form for any battle, due to the fact that he would have a pitifully low AC, coming in at a mere 13 (thanks to a high Dex). So, he must always choose Defensive form. This fixes his AC problem somewhat (sets him at 19 AC), but does nothing to help him hit foes --a task that is nearly impossible when using abilities that target AC. A comparable 1st level Fighter has +6/+7/+8 to attacks vs AC; while a Druid only has +3/+4/+5. This frustratingly low attack bonus results in Tear (Str vs Fort) being the Druid's only viable attack option, as attacking Fort helps alleviate the situation slightly against certain enemies.

Basically, a 1st level "Tank" Druid will have 19 AC, and +3/+4 to attacks, with a d6 weapon damage. A 1st level "Tank" Fighter will have 20 AC, +6/+7 to attacks, and a d8 weapon damage, and far more abilities that make him "sticky".

Am I misunderstanding Wild Shape, or was it intended to weaken the Druid so severely? What bonus does Wild Shape give the Druid that makes up for the harsh penalties associated with using it? (No AC bonus from armor or shields, no Proficiency bonus from weapons, no activated abilities from magic items, no ability to make ranged attacks without having to forsake your Wild Shape for the rest of the Encounter, difficulty communicating, and a "cooldown" of several minutes --a Short Rest--, during which a Wild Shape-focused Druid is not battle-ready.)

Last edited by Eyada; 6th July 2008 at 12:32 PM.. Reason: Fixed some minor errors...
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Old 6th July 2008, 01:02 PM   #90 (permalink)
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1- Awesome. Thank you for pulling out the max potential on goodberry , so a dwarf demigod with 20 Wis starting can get up to +9 mod = 9 berries Assuming the character takes and 15 hp each as a minor action. If his con was also 28 at that point and he took defensive focus, he'd have 232 HP with healing surges granting him +58 HP apiece as a minor action for a second wind. It takes 4 rounds of minor actions, or 1 dedicated round and 1 minor action to heal 60 hp with goodberries. I think that'd be a decent trade. Maybe I misunderstand and you say it's weak? idk, free heals without need of the cleric is pretty good. and a standard hit from a creature of that level will deal an average 28 points damage, give or take ~10 for role. So, there are both my arguments for the power level of goodberry being high vs. low.
My apologies for the lack of clarity. I feel it is too weak at level 2, as 1/2 level equals 1, and 1 hp isn't worth spending a minor action on. I think it scales pretty well at 30, as druids aren't leaders and it is additional healing on top of other abilities and equipment. If you change it to 3 + 1/2 level, then it's good at level 1 and good, but not too good, at level 30.

At 3 + 1/2 level with a druid of +4 ability, you would get a total of 16 hit points healed with a daily ability, which is good, but fair.

Quote:
2- Per the PHB (or maybe dmg), if a conjuration can be attacked, it uses your defenses unless otherwise specified.
Ah. I did not recall that rule. Thanks for the information.

Quote:
3- Good point on Go for the Eyes. It was an early mechanic I'd played with for the druid that I never changed by final cut. Consider it changed when I update next to include items and a few powers. Question though, isn't a second wind considered a heal, and don't monsters get them?
Monsters get healing surges (1 at heroic, +1 per tier), but have no way to use them unless otherwise specified. From my recollection, healing among monsters is fairly rare.

Quote:
4- IDK how much of a controller or leader he is. At lower levels I went for basic I tank or I attack powers on all three fronts with a notable drop in power for anything that didn't fit (like goodberry being about half the value of a cleric's heal but spread out to several people). By about 15 I started taking Warlock, Rogue, and Fighter powers, reflavoring and pushing them up a peg (ie level 13 vs. 17 for the druid). Any leader or controllerish powers at that point are strictly within the bounds of those three classes. Let me know, though, if you find differently.

THANK YOU again for the very well put feedback.
I was more thinking of Vigor (level 16) and Call Storm (level 13. Burst 6 within 10 is absolutely huge. The range isn't much to write home about, but burst 6 is bigger than almost all wizard spells). But, on this regard, I would only suggest it is something to be looked into at this point. I think some flexibility on roles could be a good thing in many instances.

Though we don't want the druid to steal the wizard's thunder (pun intentional).
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Old 6th July 2008, 01:24 PM   #91 (permalink)
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SNIP
All very good points. Thank you for pointing that out. My hope was to make the druid's tanking ability just under the fighter's since he can have offensive abilities with the change of a form. As it is from your post, I have missed my mark here.

A defensive druid at level 1 should have (assuming choice stats in key areas) approximately 1 less AC than a fighter but a +1 to attacks (compared). maybe if the proficiency bonuses of weapons carried over to your wild shape form? Then the druid could use the dagger both in and out of wild shape (whichever form) and still get his +3 to attack. He'll do a bit less damage than a fighter, but it shouldn't be severe.

Okay, here's a hotfix for your level 1 defensive druid, and I'll include it in my next update.
1) All druids have Proficiency 3 to attacks while in wild shape.
2) Offensive form gives +2 AC and +1d6 damage with combat advantage (+1d6 at 11 and 21) instead of +1 to attack and Str to damage with Combat Advantage.
3) Tear's Hit should read: "1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is marked and takes a -1 penalty to attack you until the start of your next turn."
4) Pack tactic's effect should read: "The target is marked by you and takes an additional 1[W] + Strength modifier damage."

What's your opinion on making the base wild-shape forms at-will? It wouldn't harm the later powers since all of them are encounter/daily and a character who takes rites focus is already sacrificing plenty by being able to only deal 1d4 damage in wild shape as opposed to 1d6/1d10. It'd make them as versatile as a wizard, I think.
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Old 6th July 2008, 01:29 PM   #92 (permalink)
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cool, definitely will update GO for the Eyes then.
Vigor is Mass Cure Light Wounds at 16. Agreed on call storm, consider its burst 1 lower than the wizard's burst spells around that level (i think that'd be 4, but don't quote me, it's late).
Flexibility is good and allows design space later on or even other builds/powers (like the illusionist wizard); but i don't want to be able to make an all druid party, either. 2 druids is really pushing it and will likely be a huge problem with hybrids in general. I'd rather keep stuff available for the shaman, barbarian, and whatever other primal classes there may be.
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Old 6th July 2008, 11:33 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Okay, here's a hotfix for your level 1 defensive druid, and I'll include it in my next update.
1) All druids have Proficiency 3 to attacks while in wild shape.
2) Offensive form gives +2 AC and +1d6 damage with combat advantage (+1d6 at 11 and 21) instead of +1 to attack and Str to damage with Combat Advantage.
3) Tear's Hit should read: "1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is marked and takes a -1 penalty to attack you until the start of your next turn."
4) Pack tactic's effect should read: "The target is marked by you and takes an additional 1[W] + Strength modifier damage."
Thanks. This should help immensely.

"#3) Tear's Hit should read: "1[W] + Strength modifier damage and the target is marked" isn't necessary for a Defensive Druid because Defensive form already makes all of his attacks mark enemies; however, if you're including that to help out Offensive form, I understand.

Concerning Wild Shape: Does the line "You can only use Wild Shape once per encounter, but you can change form freely while you maintain it" mean that you can switch between Offensive and Defensive form? I thought it meant you can change what animal form you are currently in. (ie, Initially transform into a bear, and then turn into a mountain goat when using Stomp, and then turn back into a bear. You know, a cool descriptive effect with no mechanical impact.)

Quote:
What's your opinion on making the base wild-shape forms at-will? It wouldn't harm the later powers since all of them are encounter/daily and a character who takes rites focus is already sacrificing plenty by being able to only deal 1d4 damage in wild shape as opposed to 1d6/1d10. It'd make them as versatile as a wizard, I think.
I'm not entirely sure, but it doesn't seem like it would be too bad. A Rites focus Druid probably wouldn't have very many Wild powers to use while Wild Shaped anyway, so briefly giving up his ability to cast spells (his primary focus) seems like a fair trade for a brief burst of Defensive/melee capability. This would also help out "Shifter" Druids, as they would never find themselves completely incapable of contributing to a fight. (Due to not being able to Wild Shape to use their Wild powers.)
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Old 7th July 2008, 08:12 AM   #94 (permalink)
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Yes on the tear. It's to help the defensive druid while in offensive form in case he wants to dish out some damage before tanking. It also helps an offensive druid who plans to sometimes have to pick up stuff on the fly.

As it is written now, you cannot switch forms unless you have a power that allows you to. Such powers are those which say ,"This power counts as..." If it counts as offensive form, you change to offensive form regardless of what you were in before.

But, that's not going to matter. Playtest your druid with wild-shape at-will and see how it works out compared.
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Old 8th July 2008, 09:44 AM   #95 (permalink)
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Updated with the above in mind. No items yet, mostly because I'm stumped on what to do if anything at all. Any ideas?

dcviana, if you're around at all, please can you update the PHBish version you did? I cannot get that copy you sent to open. Thank you.
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Old 10th July 2008, 09:23 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Malcolm - A couple of other threads about 4th edition eventually led a group of us to create a wiki for the various ideas surrounding an implementation of the druid class.

Do we have your permission to copy and paste the text you presented here into the wiki for incorporation / discussion?

The link to the wiki page is here.
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Old 11th July 2008, 05:22 PM   #97 (permalink)
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That's fine with me. I just updated again last night, so please use that.
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Old 14th July 2008, 02:54 PM   #98 (permalink)
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(First off, forgive me for not putting these questions in a spoiler box to save space, I don't know how to do that.)

Hey malcolm, I've been following this homebrew since conception and wanted to give my thanks for making such an awesome class. I'm going to be playing in an 11th level campaign in a few weeks, and I whipped up an offensive Wildshape druid overnight. Between all the different erratas and updates, I have a bunch of questions, and I would really appreciate any feedback you can give me.

My Druid is using a +3 Shortsword (with the bonus wep. prof. from Offensive Focus) for melee attacks. In my offensive form, what will my attack and damage be? Do I get the +3 wep. prof. from the shortsword? Do I get some kind of natural/unarmed wep. prof. too/instead? Do I deal normal medium sized unarmed damage (1d4), or normal shortsword damage (1d6) on basic attacks? What about with powers that deal [W] damage?

If I were to take the Wild Shape: Magic power and the Large Form Feat, would there be any way I could have both running at once (To be large size as well as use item powers)?

If Wildshaping is an encounter stance power, can I change back and forth from normal shape to wildshaped? How about from Defensive Form to Offensive form (or magic/large/huge/small/tiny form)? If it is a move action to use the power, is it a move action to change shape or Off/Def Form while the power is active?

When in Wildshape, I believe I get the enhancement bonuses from magical items, but not their powers. What about their effects/properties (i.e. Horned Helm's Property: Your charge attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage, and Magic weapons bonus damage on crits)?

If I'm playing a race different than medium-sized, do my wildshapes default to medium size?

In offensive form, I deal +2d6 extra damage when I have combat advantage. Is this all you get for offensive form? This seems underpowered, but I could very easily be wrong.

Most of the wild powers have a range of "Melee Touch". I assume this means any creature within reach, correct?

The Attack powers Pounce and Trample are listed as having a range of "Melee 1". What exactly does this mean, and how does it differ from "Melee touch"?

The Attack power "Cat and Mouse" lists that it does "repeat damage once if target moves or shifts away from you this turn". Is that damage dealt before they move, or after they move 1 square (Immed. Interrupt vs Immed. Reaction)?

The Attack power Pummel's range is listed simply as "Melee". Is this a typo, and if not, how does it differ from "melee touch" and "melee 1"?

The Utility 6 Tree Shape power brings to mind a million questions. What exactly does "Count" as a large tree mean? How big/tall/heavy is it? Can you move? Can you attack? If you stop moving, do you get the stealth bonus back? How do people notice that you are a fake tree? There are many more, but I actually don't care if you answer these, because I don't plan on using it. But I wanted to point them out to you in case you felt like redoing this power. Maybe it could be like the other Wild Shape powers, something like....

Wild Shape: Foliage
At Will * Primal, Polymorph, Stance
Move Action Personal
Effect: You change shape into some kind of plant. You gain a (?) bonus
to stealth checks while standing still and trying to act like a plant. You can use your roots to move one square as a move action, but you cannot shift or attack.

I have no idea what I'm doing with this power, as I have no experience with making them/making them balanced. Just throwing out an idea. Honestly, I don't like the idea of it giving a stealth bonus, simply because I can't see someone beating the stealth check and "noticing" the plant was fake. How? In any case, there's my thoughts.

Is there a reason why Whipping Tail's damage is set at 3d8 instead of 3[W]?

Does Stoneskin apply versus all weapons (anything wielded in a physical melee/ranged attack)? Does it apply against magical weapons? What about conjured magic force or ethereal/insubstantial weapons? Also, It is listed as stance power. Even though it says it can be used while in wildshape form, all the wildshape powers are stance powers as well, so wouldn't it replace the Wildshape?

Sky Marshal Paragon Path questions:

Fly-By Attack grants the ability to use standard actions before, during, or after your movement. You can use your standard, move, and minor actions in any order normally, so wouldn't this only grant the ability to use it during your movement? Would it be overpowered if it simply granted both this bonus and the bonus +1 to all movement speeds?

I find Screeching Descent's penalty to Perception oddly-placed and possibly underpowered. Would replacing the perception penalty with "dazed (save ends)" be overpowered?

Hummingbird Strike has the same stance keyword clash with wildshape that Stoneskin does. Wouldn't they cancel each other out?

I've mostly only posted questions about powers I've chosen, and I have yet to even look at any power beyond 11th level. You have done an amazing job with the project, and you should feel proud with what you've done. Again, any input on these would be awesome.
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Old 14th July 2008, 07:02 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Here we go
answers
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
(First off, forgive me for not putting these questions in a spoiler box to save space, I don't know how to do that.)

Hey malcolm, I've been following this homebrew since conception and wanted to give my thanks for making such an awesome class. I'm going to be playing in an 11th level campaign in a few weeks, and I whipped up an offensive Wildshape druid overnight. Between all the different erratas and updates, I have a bunch of questions, and I would really appreciate any feedback you can give me.
Thank you, no problem at all.
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My Druid is using a +3 Shortsword (with the bonus wep. prof. from Offensive Focus) for melee attacks. In my offensive form, what will my attack and damage be? Do I get the +3 wep. prof. from the shortsword? Do I get some kind of natural/unarmed wep. prof. too/instead? Do I deal normal medium sized unarmed damage (1d4), or normal shortsword damage (1d6) on basic attacks? What about with powers that deal [W] damage?
Assuming you have a strength of 22-23 at 11th level, You would hit on 17 (yes to prof bonus) and deal 1d6 + 11 damage with a basic attack in offensive form with +2d6 Sneak attack when you have combat advantage. X[W] = your short sword damage.
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If I were to take the Wild Shape: Magic power and the Large Form Feat, would there be any way I could have both running at once (To be large size as well as use item powers)?
Not until you get Wild Shape: Chimera; because they're both stances. It's a balance factor, but also why I made Travel form an augment and not a wild shape power.
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Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
If Wildshaping is an encounter stance power, can I change back and forth from normal shape to wildshaped? How about from Defensive Form to Offensive form (or magic/large/huge/small/tiny form)? If it is a move action to use the power, is it a move action to change shape or Off/Def Form while the power is active?
You can assume Regular Defensive or Offensive form as a move action at-will from any form you're already in. When you get wild shape: Magic, You can enter Wild shape as a minor action once per encounter from any form you're already in and still use item powers. This is true for any wild shape power, feat or otherwise.
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Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
When in Wildshape, I believe I get the enhancement bonuses from magical items, but not their powers. What about their effects/properties (i.e. Horned Helm's Property: Your charge attacks deal an extra 1d6 damage, and Magic weapons bonus damage on crits)?
Specifically, all gear functions as normal regardless of the form you take. The only limit on items is they don't have the "Wild" keyword, so you have to use Wild shape: Magic to use their powers. Yes, you do get any properties; which helps greatly for item selection later on.
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Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
If I'm playing a race different than medium-sized, do my wildshapes default to medium size?
yes, but you still cannot wield a two-handed weapon and get no bonus from versatile weapons since your normal form doesn't. All items function in wild shape as they would normally for your character (not to sound redundant, it's just something I've seen done when others write faqs and it helps if you glance over some parts to repeat some information).
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In offensive form, I deal +2d6 extra damage when I have combat advantage. Is this all you get for offensive form? This seems underpowered, but I could very easily be wrong.
You get that +2d6 with ALL attacks when you have combat advantage, not just once per round, like the rogue. You're also only limited by your choice in weapon, instead of a subset of weapons. So you could use a greataxe and get the bonus. 30th level damage for an offensive focus druid evens out right around the rogue, with less potent powers to use it.
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Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
Most of the wild powers have a range of "Melee Touch". I assume this means any creature within reach, correct?
Indeed, per the PHB (i think, could be DMG); keep in mind a reach weapon lets you become an animal with really long arms (like a gorilla)
Quote:
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The Attack powers Pounce and Trample are listed as having a range of "Melee 1". What exactly does this mean, and how does it differ from "Melee touch"?
No matter what weapon you use, you have to be next to the target you're attacking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
The Attack power "Cat and Mouse" lists that it does "repeat damage once if target moves or shifts away from you this turn". Is that damage dealt before they move, or after they move 1 square (Immed. Interrupt vs Immed. Reaction)?
Interrupt the creature's movement and hit them. It's a fighter type ability and I just copied it straight out. sorry for no clarification
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The Attack power Pummel's range is listed simply as "Melee". Is this a typo, and if not, how does it differ from "melee touch" and "melee 1"?
Typo, melee touch
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Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
The Utility 6 Tree Shape power brings to mind a million questions. What exactly does "Count" as a large tree mean? How big/tall/heavy is it? Can you move? Can you attack? If you stop moving, do you get the stealth bonus back? How do people notice that you are a fake tree? There are many more, but I actually don't care if you answer these, because I don't plan on using it. But I wanted to point them out to you in case you felt like redoing this power. Maybe it could be like the other Wild Shape powers, something like....

Wild Shape: Foliage
At Will * Primal, Polymorph, Stance
Move Action Personal
Effect: You change shape into some kind of plant. You gain a (?) bonus
to stealth checks while standing still and trying to act like a plant. You can use your roots to move one square as a move action, but you cannot shift or attack.
This one always makes me laugh because everybody overcomplicates it so easily. No offense, it's just interesting.
1) Tree form is not a wild shape power; you can change into it only when not in wild shape.
2) You are in all ways a large tree (except with sentience)
3) You take up a 2x2 square as per large size
4) You get a +10 to stealth checks
5) If you move or somebody beats your stealth, you revert out of tree form. You can enter it again next round for whatever good it would do you.
6) You can attack, but as per stealth, that gives you away so you only have combat advantage for that one attack unless you're flanking
7) It's mostly a true to heart utility as there's only certain times you'd use it in combat to get advantage for a round. Mostly, I could see it as a great way to guard while your party rests. You can also let your party climb 10 feet without a ladder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
I have no idea what I'm doing with this power, as I have no experience with making them/making them balanced. Just throwing out an idea. Honestly, I don't like the idea of it giving a stealth bonus, simply because I can't see someone beating the stealth check and "noticing" the plant was fake. How? In any case, there's my thoughts.
The bonus stealth is mechanical more than fluff. You're not you, so how can others tell you're pulling their leg? Well, if you sneeze or twitch when there's no wind, that's a pretty good sign something's out of the ordinary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
Is there a reason why Whipping Tail's damage is set at 3d8 instead of 3[W]?
Mostly fluff. Usually you use your weapon with attacks, but suddenly you also grow a tail. The tail does static damage because you're probably not throwing that shortsword out behind you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
Does Stoneskin apply versus all weapons (anything wielded in a physical melee/ranged attack)? Does it apply against magical weapons? What about conjured magic force or ethereal/insubstantial weapons? Also, It is listed as stance power. Even though it says it can be used while in wildshape form, all the wildshape powers are stance powers as well, so wouldn't it replace the Wildshape?
Resist X weapons is a function of a lot of powers/monsters. Whatever it means with them holds true here. My assumption is anything that can be used with powers and the "weapon" keyword. From a monster perspective, any natural weapon like claw and bite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
Sky Marshal Paragon Path questions:

Fly-By Attack grants the ability to use standard actions before, during, or after your movement. You can use your standard, move, and minor actions in any order normally, so wouldn't this only grant the ability to use it during your movement? Would it be overpowered if it simply granted both this bonus and the bonus +1 to all movement speeds?
It's a redundancy used in a lot of rules text out thereto point out that it still functions normally, plus something else. if you don't think it's balanced enough by letting you move before and after an attack every round, +1 is fine. I caution though, it's a little more powerful than it may seem
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
I find Screeching Descent's penalty to Perception oddly-placed and possibly underpowered. Would replacing the perception penalty with "dazed (save ends)" be overpowered?
I suppose not, but it was meant to grant you help with stealth to get combat advantage. They achieve the same goal over all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
Hummingbird Strike has the same stance keyword clash with wildshape that Stoneskin does. Wouldn't they cancel each other out?
You can use Hummingbird strike while in Wild shape form, making it an addition while you continue to maintain your normal stance; like stoneskin. You couldn't use stoneskin and hummingbird strike at the same time without wild shape: Chimera.
Quote:
Originally Posted by King-Panda View Post
I've mostly only posted questions about powers I've chosen, and I have yet to even look at any power beyond 11th level. You have done an amazing job with the project, and you should feel proud with what you've done. Again, any input on these would be awesome.
I do, thank you very much. Please don't hesitate to ask any other questions.
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Old 14th July 2008, 07:34 PM   #100 (permalink)
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eloquentaction Goblin Sharpshooter (Lvl 2)
New stab at Druid...

malcolm_n -

I've been loving your druid class for a while now, but, being the bastard I am, I wanted to take a stab at updating it and seeing what I could come up with.

Attached is a PDF of just the first level Druid I came up with looking at your design and throwing in a few ideas of my own. EDIT: I had to zip the damned thing - it was just a hair too big for the attachments.

Please feel free to criticize my version as much as you like or to discount it all-together.

-- Hirahito
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File Type: zip Druid.zip (283.0 KB, 9 views)
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Last edited by eloquentaction; 14th July 2008 at 07:36 PM.. Reason: Where the heck is the PDF?
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