4e Fan Creations and House RulesWorking on variant powers? Statting up a PC race or your version of a monster? Creating or converting an adventure? Put it here!
Sorry... It was part of my plan to drive you crazy with anticipation.
I'm thinking that the Inspiration idea adds flexibility, and would allow the class to take a step toward filling just about any role. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to have a particularly Indiana Jones / Tomb Raider flavor.
Although the historian is a kind of hybrid, and crosses roles, I wasn't specifically looking to cover every role either. In other words, I was taking the approach of design-without-regard-to-role as opposed to the approach of design-to-cover-any-role.
I think the mechanic has promise though... I can imagine a class that made extensive use of it.
Last edited by Inlicere; 14th July 2008 at 11:03 PM..
I don't understand how not making him a good combat character was a conscious design choice. I guess depending on the sort of campaign you run this might work (at my table things start to get tense if we go 30 mins without a good fight). I would give the poor fellow some advantage in combat though, even if it isn't some bonus d6's against targets like a striker has. I can understand how it would be fun to be the predominant explorer in the party, but even if it doesn't fit the class description I would make him just as good in a fight as the other characters so that the player controlling him doesn't feel left out.
Class Role: Leader/Striker (Relic Hunter) or Leader/Defender (Explorer)
Replace Streetwise with Nature: You are more apt to need to know how to survive and find your way to the lost temple rather than carouse in the local pub.
Master of your Trade: The Historians advanced education give them an edge in surviving regardless what life throws at them. You gain a +2 bonus to all knowledge checks.
Slough Off Mark: This ability isn't work taking a mark penalizes you when you attack a target other then the one who marked you, this ability removes a mark the target has in you. I don't see any benefit.
I agree with Eric n the fact that you need to come up with multiple build options.
Relic Hunter:Focused on having a high Intelligence, using your intellect to locate weakness in your opponent and exploit it. Give them
Careful study: you study your opponent's movements and identify a weakness. When you are ready, you can inflict deadly blows with ease.
As a minor action in combat you may study a creature. Make an appropriate knowledge skill depending on the creature Dc 15, success means you have studied the target. Failure means you can retry with another minor action. The DC increases to 25 for monsters at the paragon level and 30 for those at the epic level.
Once per round when you deal damage to a creature you have successfully studied, add 1d6 to the damage. This amount increases to 2d6 at 11th level and 3d6 at 21st level.
Explorer: You focus on your insight and perception to control the opponent forcing them to attack you or compromise their defenses. Give them
Insightful Defense -By spending a minor action you size up your opponent anticipating his moves before he makes them.
Choose an adjacent enemy, that enemy is marked as long as you engage it. Additionally, you get a bonus to OAs against the marked target equal to 1/2 your wisdom modifier and whenever the marked target shifts any number of squares you may shift that many squares or up to 1/2 your wisdom modifier (whichever is fewer) as long as you end your movement adjacent to the marked target. Add 1 square to the number of squares you shift at 11th level, and add a further 1 square (total of 2) at 21st level.
Make one Encounter Exploit of each level geared towards each build
(abiliteslisted above are from other post which i feel work with this class)
Last edited by WanderingMystic; 15th July 2008 at 08:56 AM..
wow. Just wow. A Wholly original class, and it's well written and (so far) balanced. You must have put some major effort and time into this. I would totally nominate it and look forward to trying one.
If it would be okay with you, I'd like to try my hand at making a paragon path or two for you to consider. Idk if you're already working on them, but I thought I'd offer.
__________________ OP By Stalker0
Neo: "So, what are you trying to tell me? At 30th level I don't get anything?"
Morpheus: "No Neo. I'm telling you that when you're 30th level; you won't need anything."
If it would be okay with you, I'd like to try my hand at making a paragon path or two for you to consider. Idk if you're already working on them, but I thought I'd offer.
Thanks for the comments. Feel free to toss out some paragon paths -- that would be great! The path concepts I've come up with (but haven't actually written yet) are:
Arcane historian -- A person who has taken all arcane powers through their "esoteric knowledge" and wants to develop further in the arcane path.
Divine historian -- Same thing but with divine powers.
Aberrant historian -- A person who wants to gain some of the actual powers of the Aberrants (as opposed to just their combat tactics, which the base class has).
Anything you want to add would be great!
BTW, I haven't missed the other input that was given... I'm working on some of the background material for my setting right now, and then will make the next pass through both the Divine Agent and the Historian classes.
Okay, I've broken the class down into its core parts. It is definitely a striker. there is a light dusting of defender, but not enough to call it a hybrid unless you take defender powers with esoteric knowledge.
More to come
__________________ OP By Stalker0
Neo: "So, what are you trying to tell me? At 30th level I don't get anything?"
Morpheus: "No Neo. I'm telling you that when you're 30th level; you won't need anything."
History Student [Multiclass Historian]
Benefit: You gain training in the History skill. You gain the Utility Esoteric Knowledge feature at 8th level.
FWIW... although I haven't updated the Historian PDF yet, I've got a bit more material on the google group of my campaign. Here's what I did for the multiclass feat:
Student of History [Multiclass Historian] Prerequisite: Int 13 Benefit: You gain training in the History skill.
Once per encounter, as a free action, you can use the Historian's Quick Thinking class feature, which will then last until the end of your next turn
Prerequisite: Historian, at least one divine utility
Ollidamara was believed to be an ancient god of rogues and dungeon delvers. In modern times, she is little more than a whispered name in the prayers of adventurers as they explore dark and overgrown temples and other long-forgotten locations. A sparse few understand enough of this forgotten deity to offer her more than lip service. These champions of hidden paths and secret passages are the Temple Raiders of Ollidamara.
Ollidamara’s Gambit (11th Level): Once per encounter, when you would fail an attack or check, you can reroll it and apply your Wisdom modifier instead.
Raider’s Reaction (11th level): You can spend action points as an immediate interrupt with no trigger. If you do, you cannot spend an action point on the following round, if you could otherwise do so.
Blessings of Ollidamara (16th level): When you use a daily attack triggered by an ally or a daily utility that can target an ally, any allies involved in the trigger or use of that power also gain temporary hit points equal to your level.
Quote:
Aside: The historian powers that trigger this are:
Quote:
- Follow My Lead - Desperation Move - Lead the Way - You’ve Got His Back - Life Saving Lunge
Temple Raider Powers
A Friend in Need Raider Attack 11 Encounter * Divine, Healing, Weapon Immediate Interrupt Ranged 10 Trigger: A bloodied ally is attacked Target: The attacking creature Effect: Your ally can spend a healing surge, and the target is marked by you. If you are adjacent to the target, make an attack. Attack: Wisdom vs. AC Hit: 1[W] + Wisdom modifier damage.
Don’t Forget Your Hat Raider Utility 12 Daily * Martial Free Action Personal Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you gain a bonus to grabs and checks made to hold onto an important object equal to your Wisdom modifier. If you would drop the object or let go of a grabbed creature, you can make an immediate save to avoid doing so.
A Friend Indeed Raider Attack 20 Daily * Divine, Weapon Standard Action Melee weapon Target: One Creature Attack: Intelligence or Wisdom vs. AC Hit: 4[W] + Wisdom modifier damage Effect: Until the end of the encounter, allies adjacent to you can use any of your defenses instead of their own.
__________________ OP By Stalker0
Neo: "So, what are you trying to tell me? At 30th level I don't get anything?"
Morpheus: "No Neo. I'm telling you that when you're 30th level; you won't need anything."
Thanks for prompting! I've been working on setting information for my campaign, which launches this weekend, so I haven't been able to do "round 2" on the historian yet.
Good news though... the historian is going to enter real play this weekend, so we'll start getting feedback on how it works in practical situations.
A brief status update for all the interested parties:
My 4e campaign kicked off this weekend as scheduled, so I've now seen the Historian in play. It held it's own, but there was general feedback from the party that was similar to some of the comments that I've received on this board, and on the WotC forums -- namely, that some of the at-will powers are too situation-specific (Slough off Mark), and that it would be nice to see more use of Intelligence-based powers.
There was also some discussion of whether "historian" is really the right name for the class, since it evokes an image of a quiet scholar rather than an action-oriented character like I.J. / Tomb Raider. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has other thoughts on this.
I'm going to take the comments from my players and the boards, and get cracking on the next round asap. You can expect to see some updates to the class this week.
I personally don't mind the name it reminds me of the librarians from Deadlands Hell on Earth who adventured though a post apocalyptical wasteland trying to salvage books so information would not be lost.
But if you want a different name I would try Field Scholar to show that these are people who go out adventuring in order to study (monster, history, archeology, explorers ect…)
They are the type of person who you picture always writing in a journal so they can take their findings back to share with others
The updated PDF for the Historian class is available on the google group for my campaign. The direct link to the PDF is here.
I've tried to address the key issues that were pointed out here and in the WotC forums. Also, paragon paths have been added. Thank you all for your great feedback!
FWIW, I'd love to get suggestions for more class-specific feats.
Let me know what you think!
Last edited by Inlicere; 30th July 2008 at 11:55 PM..
Personally I feel that Master of Your Trade is a touch to powerful it makes it pointless to buy new skills when you can just buy 2 feats to get a +4 to all unknown skills as opposed to taking Skill Training twice and getting trained in 2 unknown skills (a +5). Instead maybe just +1 to all unknown skills which stacks with Jack of all Trade.
The class still doesn't showcase Intelligence that much and depending on the Esoteric Knowledge you have learned you can become very MAD making spending points on Intelligence much less appealing. As it stands unless I am taking a lot of Wizard powers my Int. should be kept tertiary.
I would change the powers in Aberrant Master to be keyed off of Charisma rather than Wisdom to allow better synergy with learning Warlock powers.
I also don't think they need their own power type since starlock tap into the same type of energies and use arcane I feel that arcane works for these. Needs some kind of implement to keep these powers in line with all of your other ones.
I'll take a closer look asap!
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