4e Fan Creations and House RulesWorking on variant powers? Statting up a PC race or your version of a monster? Creating or converting an adventure? Put it here!
Been considering something along those lines. How long have you been experimenting with that rule?
A while, but its only actually been used twice.
It worked fine. I mean, "make something up, here are some really rough guidelines" generally does work fine. The only pitfalls are the usual ones- you have to either remember that last time your PCs ad libbed a ritual it cost X, so it should cost X again, or you have to get your players to understand that you're not going to bother doing that, and they should expect some variation.
Just so this is out there, I have huge respect for Ari and I may yet pick up the APG. And I'm proud to say that, independant of ever hearing about his ideas for injuries, I immediately thought of using the Disease Track for Wounds. However, upon further consideration, I decided that it felt a bit cumbersome to do so. I wanted to be able to resolve it in only a few quick rolls. So I've been steering clear of the Disease Track in general.
I've thought about making "disease cards" (similar to power cards), that have the track across the top. Put a paper clip on the track numbers and slide it back and forth to show where you are. When you're no longer diseased, hand the card back to the DM.
Seems like it would make it pretty easy to adjudicate.
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I'm loving this thread. I'm still not sure about wounds, but some of these other effects are definitely going to make their way into my game.
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I really, really like your action point-Daily houserule. Very, very much. MM get that into the DMG2 quick !!
I was considering something similar to your Wounded] condition after I first read the PHB, but I found my group didn't really care about the instant healing so it is on the back burner for now.
However I was going to use the bloodied condition as the maximum HPs a wounded character could heal until he had some days (or even weeks) of bed rest. And I would encourage the players to come up with their own wounds.
XP: I dont give out XP any more, there is no reason too; unless you have a lot of players that split from the group or give out hefty RP xp rewards. I level them up after they have ploughed through a few encounters, I keep a rough track, but make it fit into our sessions.
Milestones: Very like XP, but I dont keep very good track, as long as I feel they have done something significant - not just killed a couple of goblin guards - I'll hand out Action Points. I like 4e because it supports my casual style more so than 3e, I'm not very organised, I like to story-tell.
Magic Items: Your spontaneous magic items reminds me of the Computer RPG Baldurs Gate, a lot of the magic items were created by this kind of spontaneous magic. It is actually a great resource, there is a program that can extract all the magic item histories from the game discs. I should dig it out and add this to my own game.
Rituals: My players arn't as enthused about them as I am, I think they are great and my NPCs now make liberal use of them. I will start handing them out as treasure and use your component idea so they dont feel like they are spending their gold.
__________________ Pablo El Vagabundo
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Here is the latest version of my "Wounded" system. I'd love any further feedback you care to give.
There are two possible ways for a PC to become Wounded:
A PC who fails a Death Save while at negative Hit Points becomes Wounded.
Certain monsters (mostly Elite and Solo monsters) or Traps may cause a PC to become Wounded on a Critical Hit.
While Wounded a PC suffers from the following effects:
They do not regain full hit points after an Extended Rest. A successful Heal check after an Extended Rest allows them to regain hit points as though they had spent a Healing Surge.
The PC is not as resiliant as normal and thus their healing surges only restore half (rounded down) of the normal hit points.
A character may attempt to recover from being Wounded after an Extended Rest by making a successful Endurance check. If the PC is under the care of a character Trained in the Heal skill, that roll may be substituted for the Endurance check. In addition it is possible for certain Rituals to give bonuses to this Endurance check or to heal the Wounded condition outright.
This would mean that a Wounded PC IS effected in Combat by way of not gaining as much benefit from healing effects. It also means that having a Cleric around helps quite a bit (thanks to the extra healing above and beyond the Surge value for Healing Word). Without a Cleric a PC has to spend (roughly) 8 Healing Surges to be at full health from zero. That's going to be the lion's share of Surges for even the strongest members of the party.
It makes a Wounded PC fragile and less able to recover from nastier wounds but doesn't take them out of the fight entirely. I think that's the feel that I'm after here.
Mechanically it requires no additional tracking that you weren't already doing anyway during combat. And it takes only a single roll to determine whether the PC has recovered after an Extended Rest.
I am considering adding some of these for my home game (also in the Triangle ). One question, how about during a Short Rest? Do they just burn surges at 1/2 value instead? OR can then only be healed by a Cleric using his encounter powers (or Healing Word) during the short rest?
My party likes to (sometimes) do the 10 min rest or the "double-short" rest so that the cleric can use his powers to optimize the use of surges and then get them back for the next encounter.
I like the skills option, the milestones (but, admittedly, in a dungeon the 1 per 2 may still be in effect -- not sure yet), and I actually only pseudo-track XP and I am thinking of just leveling them up when I think they are ready. Since I am running AoW converted for 4e, it will be easy to estimate this.
Rituals and Magic Items -- I have been using improvised and unique reagents for a while and will continue to do so. The old Phil Reed 101 series (3.x) had some good ones in there, or powering spells, making items, etc. I do like your Magic Item ideas. I would have special mundane items (like an heirloom blade, or dead father's ring) become magical in certain circumstances since 1e and I love the fact that you are trying to codify it.
Good stuff!
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Characters & Games
Books currently in play: Dungeon & Dragon Magazine (*Scales of War AP*), WOTC 4e Core and Supplemental books
Current Campaign: Scales of War - Lost Mines of Karak -- Kodirgo, Minotaur Barbarian 6; Vondal, Dwarf Cleric 6; Karithul, Gnome Bard 6; Marshaun, Elf Druid 6
I was doing some things awhile back with critical hits, and this thread about wounds got me thinking. How about the hit that takes you below 0 is considered a critical hit based on the House Rule I've included below?
I like the idea of a critical hit to be more rare (as some have suggested). Either needing to exceed AC by 10, or by having to "comfirm" a critical hit (meaning you've rolled the 20, now roll to hit again - success means crit).
Critical hits do not have extra/max damage, you roll damage normally, but they affect your maximum hit points. On the character sheet you'll have 2 scores one is Healthy MAX HP and the Current MAX HP. Current MAX HP does not affect you bloodied or healing surge values.
Crits heal on there own 1d6+CON Mod hp per day. A cleric would have another Class feature - something like this below:
Cure Critical Wounds
Cleric Feature
You utter a simple prayer as divine light washes over your target, healing their most grievous wounds.
Daily ✦ Divine, Healing
Standard Action Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: The target is healed 1d6 + Wisdom modifier of critical hit points.
Increase critical hit points healed to 2d6 + Wisdom modifier at 11th level and 3d6 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.
I would think (not having played/read 4E) that for dungeons, if you want an older-school feel, you should not count random encounters toward "milestones". Random encounters are supposed to be things you avoid because they just wear you down.
I like the idea of critical hits reducing max hp. That's an easy way to put dire wounds back in. You could say that max hp increases back to normal at the rate of 1 per day (or 1 per day per level, or whatever); however, you could also say that any magical healing is able to heal you up to the true maximum (so warlord powers and resting don't help much here, but magic stuff and cleric powers do).
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
Wounded: I think you should consider using the condition track from Saga edition to handle the wounds. It is MUCH simpler and you can use it to have broken bones etc. This allows you to retain all the HP and healing surges, but make it something special to heal condition damage.
I was doing some things awhile back with critical hits, and this thread about wounds got me thinking. How about the hit that takes you below 0 is considered a critical hit based on the House Rule I've included below?
I like the idea of a critical hit to be more rare (as some have suggested). Either needing to exceed AC by 10, or by having to "comfirm" a critical hit (meaning you've rolled the 20, now roll to hit again - success means crit).
Critical hits do not have extra/max damage, you roll damage normally, but they affect your maximum hit points. On the character sheet you'll have 2 scores one is Healthy MAX HP and the Current MAX HP. Current MAX HP does not affect you bloodied or healing surge values.
Crits heal on there own 1d6+CON Mod hp per day. A cleric would have another Class feature - something like this below:
Cure Critical Wounds
Cleric Feature
You utter a simple prayer as divine light washes over your target, healing their most grievous wounds.
Daily ✦ Divine, Healing
Standard Action Close burst 5 (10 at 11th level, 15 at 21st level)
Target: You or one ally
Effect: The target is healed 1d6 + Wisdom modifier of critical hit points.
Increase critical hit points healed to 2d6 + Wisdom modifier at 11th level and 3d6 + Wisdom modifier at 21st level.
That's a pretty interesting idea. I think if I were going to use it that I might go the route of saying that you only heal CON Mod HP per day without aid but that you could also benefit from a Heal check. DC 10 = 1d4 extra HP healed, DC 15 = 1d6 extra HP healed, etc. up to DC 30 for an extra d12.
Do I interpret correctly that your crits reduce both your current hit points AND your current maximum hit points? If they only reduce the latter then that set's up some potentially screwy situations where the players end up saying, "Man, I wish I hadn't critted that guy."
Your idea of the extra daily power for the Cleric is neat but I still lean toward Rituals as the way to handle this. This lends support to the idea that a town might have a sort of Hedge Wizard or Witch Doctor type healer and also to take a bit of pressure off if none of the players wants to play a Cleric.
I am considering adding some of these for my home game (also in the Triangle ). One question, how about during a Short Rest? Do they just burn surges at 1/2 value instead? OR can then only be healed by a Cleric using his encounter powers (or Healing Word) during the short rest?
My original version of the Wounds rule included the idea that you couldn't voluntarily spend Surges after a Short Rest to regain as many hit points as you desired. It was pointed out that an easy workaround for this was the Cleric doing Healing Word, take another Short Rest, do Healing Word again, etc. It was also pointed out that, lacking a Cleric, they could simply Second Wind themselves back to health in the same manner.
In the interests of simplicity I decided to go the route of letting them spend as many Surges as they like but each only heals half as much as normal. I think it achieves the effect I'm after.
How about your current HP can not rise above your Bloodied value? That's a real downside, being bloodied until you can deal (Heal, Endurance, ritual, what have you)
That's a pretty interesting idea. I think if I were going to use it that I might go the route of saying that you only heal CON Mod HP per day without aid but that you could also benefit from a Heal check. DC 10 = 1d4 extra HP healed, DC 15 = 1d6 extra HP healed, etc. up to DC 30 for an extra d12.
Do I interpret correctly that your crits reduce both your current hit points AND your current maximum hit points? If they only reduce the latter then that set's up some potentially screwy situations where the players end up saying, "Man, I wish I hadn't critted that guy."
Your idea of the extra daily power for the Cleric is neat but I still lean toward Rituals as the way to handle this. This lends support to the idea that a town might have a sort of Hedge Wizard or Witch Doctor type healer and also to take a bit of pressure off if none of the players wants to play a Cleric.
Yes both current and max hit points. I could easily see a ritual as well as the Daily. Rituals cost money, so that is the give and take. I'd say you heal at least 1 + con mod per day, but I like the heal check - a combination would probably work.
Good stuff, and thanks for throwing it out here for the entire world. A little trickier than many may realize.
I'm particularly fond of your handling of milestones. I agree that it's better as written for "all campaigns" in the books, but that this will add a cool "flava" element to a running campaign.
PC wounding - ok, I get that it's not quite gritty enough. Your example is a good one. My primary concern here is that juggling with the wounding will prove "fatal" to your party at some point. I try to avoid like the plague anything that requires me to make adjustments to "pre-built" encounters, because saving time is king in my gaming experience. If my PC's all agreed they wanted a grittier campaign, with greater threats, I would probably do something like this:
1) Anytime you are bloodied or unconscious make a save. Failed save results in a wound.
2) Steal a wound chart from Rolemaster or Hackmaster and determine randomly.
I also like your thoughts on skills, and the bonus skills to begin the game. I agree with your assessment that the core game system leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to character creation. Very little beyond the basic race/class/buy generic stats. This is a change that is positive in that direction without worrying about unbalancing issues.
Good stuff, and thanks for throwing it out here for the entire world. A little trickier than many may realize.
I'm particularly fond of your handling of milestones. I agree that it's better as written for "all campaigns" in the books, but that this will add a cool "flava" element to a running campaign.
PC wounding - ok, I get that it's not quite gritty enough. Your example is a good one. My primary concern here is that juggling with the wounding will prove "fatal" to your party at some point. I try to avoid like the plague anything that requires me to make adjustments to "pre-built" encounters, because saving time is king in my gaming experience. If my PC's all agreed they wanted a grittier campaign, with greater threats, I would probably do something like this:
1) Anytime you are bloodied or unconscious make a save. Failed save results in a wound.
2) Steal a wound chart from Rolemaster or Hackmaster and determine randomly.
I also like your thoughts on skills, and the bonus skills to begin the game. I agree with your assessment that the core game system leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to character creation. Very little beyond the basic race/class/buy generic stats. This is a change that is positive in that direction without worrying about unbalancing issues.
Thanks for the feedback!
Funny thing about wounds is that my original idea was very similar to yours in terms of rolling on some kind of chart to determine a sort of wound and its effects. After some consideration and advice from others I decided to scale that back to something that required no additional modifiers or rolls during combat to make sure it didn't slow things down. This is partly for obvious reasons and partly because my campaign setting includes some elements that are likely to impose penalties like that at some point and I didn't want that stacked on top of a wound system with fiddly bits.
As for the deadliness, you are undoubtedly correct. After I had mulled the idea over a bit I thought, "This is kinda screwing the PC's over a bit with no offsetting benefit." So I e-mailed my players and asked what they thought. Their collective response was basically, "We're used to you screwing us over. It makes the games intense and challenging. We really wouldn't know how to feel if you didn't so bring it on."
I've got great players.
However I intend for the Wounds system to be on probation from the start. We're going to use it for the first several sessions and see how it makes the game feel. If it makes things too deadly or threatens the pace of the game that I want then I'll ditch it.
Oh, another idea that I'm contemplating using is this:
In my idea above for Milestones and the associated APs it could well be that I'm giving them out at a lower rate than is assumed under the rules. To compensate for that I'm thinking about letting the players define their characters in ways similar to the "Nature and Demeanor" rules from World of Darkness (or at least they were in the old WoD - I don't have the new rules).
Basically you define how your character thinks and acts in a couple of ways. When you roleplay the PC in accordance with that then you get a bonus AP. That's pretty much the extent of it.
So if your PC is a "Rebel" and you deviate from the group's plan but the group succeeds anyway, you get a bonus AP. If you are a "Bon Vivant" and you stop in the middle of the dungeon to crack open the cask of really nice wine the party discovered, you get a bonus AP. That sort of thing.
I'm not 100% settled on doing this but I figured I'd toss it out there and see what others thought.
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