Class Don't hate me...my 4th Edition Psion ver1.0

[OU812]

Here I go. Looking for constructive criticism.

I couldn't find anybody else's version so I made my own.

I got powers up to full Epic levels. 4 Paragon Paths, Heroic Feats and A magic Item.

Waddaya guys think?

[DanmarLOK]

My initial reaction is the stats seem all over the place that are used for attacks? Some are int, str, con, cha etc and that's just down through the first level or three.

The concept seems okay though even the first little bits have a good flavor to them for powers although I didn't do any balance checks, just reading the powers and visualizing them in use.

I'm going to grab the pdf's for further perusal.

Make a half-illithid race to go with them and you might have a total package.

[OU812]

I started focusig on Int and Cha only for powers, but a friend pointed out that a little mix makes sense. Right now I focused mainly on having Int or Cha the controlling stats for powers, and Con representing the psion's "mental strength" so to speak - or how much he can push his limits too.

[SpydersWebbing]

Hhhhmm.... a few of the level 1 encounter powers look like utilities. Is that just me?

[OU812]

They might, but if you look at the 1st level encounter powers for wizards, some of them resemble utility powers as well (Such as creating difficult terrain), but also do damage. I did the same, just left out the damage. I felt if it was more than just a utility power, it could be a Daily or Encounter as well. One problem I had with 4th (so Far) is that it always seems 98% of the powers are for attacks that do some kind of damage. I felt, especially with making the psion class fairly unique, it would makes sense to have powers that would technically work well as attacks but did no actual damage (Much like the old versions of Mind Blast-All it did was stun targets then, but was considered a powerful attack ability to have).

[OU812]

Doesn't anybody else have an opinion? I really am looking for feedback and have heard only the two here so far.

[ranig]

I have not read it really far, but many things disturb me:

-first, the role. No role ? No, it's not in the 4E spirit. If you want to do multiple roles, do multiple classes...
-second, it's really hard to read. Please, do something to distinguish at-will from encounter or daily powers
-third, as it has already been said, many powers are utility powers, and not attack powers. Utility powers give you various bonuses, and attack powers damage or otherwise inflict a condition to at least one ennemy.
-fourth, some keywords are missing.
-fifth, I would think that it would be great to make implements for all psions and all powers. If psions have no implements, they will suffer at high levels where implements are important. Maybe tatoos, dorje or crowns, so you can keep the Orb implement feat that is quite a good idea.
-sixth, paragon paths usually have an ability at 11th level that improves action points. The other ability is gained at 16th level and not at 20th level.
-seventh, I like the stances, I think it fits the psion very well.
-eighth, make a difference between Success, and Effect. Success are the effects that apply on a successful attack roll, Effect are effects that do not depend on the success or failure of an attack roll.
-ninth, great job, all what I said before is just to improve the quality of your work

[OU812]

Thank You!

I appeciate the constructive criticism.

one quick point: I decided to keep implements out because I thought it would help balance the nature of the class. Psionics tends to be more subtle as far as obvious powers go, and there are few who are truly immune to psychic attacks or damage, so I felt the basic nature of the class was powerful enough (especially with the status effects they can usually cause) that doing without implements in general made sense. Also, I always felt (just personally) that impliments just don't make a lot of sense for psions as they would rather depend on themselves and their own powers, than feeling the neccessity of having to improve their abilities with objects (Belief in one's own power is essential to psions in my opinion) or make even more obvious with items of where a psionic attack might be coming from. I also felt that there would probably be individual (magical?) items eventually that did offer small pumps in a pions power (Such as magical Crowns) without having to add any true implements from the begining.

[inkpenavenger]

Implements are almost always needed by non-weapon users though. I mean, weapons grant that crucial proficiency bonus to attacks. Implements are the only way for "magic" users to raise their attack bonuses. Without an implement, (especially in the epic tier) the fighter in the party could have like a +5 longsword (so total +8 attack bonus, and +5d6 on criticals), while your psion still has only his ability modifier and no extra dice for critical hits.

As far a an implement to use goes, you could use crystals. I'd say give them powers similar to orbs and rods.

[OU812]

I did give them access to Orbs...if they want it. I just made it a feat choice rather than a class ability. I even made an Orb specifically for Psions. As I said, I felt that implements, while an interesting concept, don't truly fit with most psion concepts...In addition Psions are more comfortable with disabling or immobilizing their opponents. It just fits within their power concept better. Extra bonuses to hit and damage are nice, but when your enemies are either going to be stunned senseless usually or immune completely to half your abilites, extra bonuses to hit and damage seems a little overboard and unbalancing.

However, I also see your point. Let's hear any other takes on this or any other subject.

[PrecociousApprentice]

Some form of "implement" bonus is essential to the class. Without it, attack rolls lag. Every class needs them. Look at a few of the monk homebrews to see what other people are doing.

[Paultimatum]

I also agree that the psion needs some kind of implement, every class needs to be able to have some sort of magic item to increase their attack bonuses or they will fall behind, especially at higher levels. I like the orb feat though, it would be good if that could stay. Maybe if you would rather not use crowns or crystals, or think that psionics would rely only on themselves, there could be a ritual psionics know that allow them to absorb the power of a magic item? In stead of the magic being converted to residuum the magic could go into their head, dissenchanting the item. Might be a bit strange, but could be a cool class feature (they would obviously only be able to do this to one weapon at a time) and could help to give them power. Personally I think their class features are a bit unbalenced, except for the mind link, which I like as it is (neat idea to have a striker like mark only instead of extra damage it does other things). The psicristals, which seem to me to be overpowered (several paragon paths have an ability to spend an action point to gain an encounter power use, and this is even starting at lvl 11). The wilder's surge is an good concept, but might also be overpowered, with all the effects on a crit (feats, magic items when using orbs or other weapons, etc.). The other features seem underpowered compared to some other classes. I also thing the split path feats could use a boost in power, maybe to once an encounter. Another thought; should the psionics have an at will that serves as a ranged basic attack? Anyway, looks like a not bad start for a class, but needs some changes (some of them just grammar/terminology).

[OU812]

Ok. Looks like so far it is unanimous to add a Psion Implement or two.

What do you guys suggest as best (Choose multiple answers if you want):

1. Add more Implement Feats.
2. Add 1 base implement for all psions.
3. Add 2 base implements for all psions.
4. Add Psicrowns (My personal favorite I think)
5. Add Dorjes (A silly concept in my opinion)
6. Add Powerstones...Hmmmm-A one shot Power booster?
7. Add crystal weapons as implements (Such as in Eberron and/or Glassteel weapons?
8. Other (?)


Let me know.

[PrecociousApprentice]

Implement feats alone would just be a feat tax on the class. Every other class gets the ability to augment their attacks with a magic item for free. If you charged a feat for it, it would be like just taking away a feat. Every character will need them. Give it to them. The number is all fluff. Combining it with a weapon is something that needs to be thought about. Are they really a melee class? Besides the warlock, all the classes that use weapons as implements are at least passable meleers.

[DMINGW00TISAWSOME]

In the psicrystal entry in the first pdf, it didn't say how often you can regain an encounter power. is it once per encounter or once per day?

[OU812]

Once per day.

I'll post an update with corrections once I get enough feed back...

Any new opinions?

[Mason]

Thanks OU812 for the great write up for a 4th ed. Psion rules.

Looking at what Wizards has coming out in 2009, unless PH2 surprises us, I doubt we'll see anything for Psions.

I've been running 3 year old Eberron campaign, which I switched over to 4th last year. It has been pretty easy to let the players remake their character as 4th, and I as the DM give a few extra powers to each translating 3.5 into 4th to keep continually. Only one player had trouble, the Half-elf Lyrandar psion sailor. We use the wizard as the base, but we sorta guess how what powers would translate. I guess we both were lazy really did want to write everything down as you did. Man this is great, I like what you did. We'll be using this weekend.
As inkpenavenger posted, crystal implements really fit. Crowns, Rods, Orbs, wands, staffs, stones, weapons would work. Tying an implement extra bonus to a specific psion power type might work. I don't mind the implements that are used by other classes needing a feat, but some just for the psion should be a part of the class.
As ranig posted, you might follow the same color coding for powers that the 4th books. As for roles, I like the concept your sorta general till paragon then that defines a 4th role, which opens into powers for each type of psion.

As Paultimatum posted, there are some good points. I play with what you have, and see what my players think.
Any way I look forward to future posts. THANKS

[OU812]

Please, I have not had a chance to play-test anyting yet, so please let me know what happens! It was a lot of work, but in the end, it was worth it! Pass on to others that it is here too. I'd like to see more views as I develop it.

I will also try and put up a 2.0 Version sometime soon.

Thanks for the awsome comments!

=)