4E Lance Fighting

[Paul Strack]

The paladin in my group wants to use a lance, and low and behold I discover there is no such beast in 4E.

Rather than invent a new weapon, I thought it would be easier to use the longspear and define a new feat:

Lance Fighting [Feat]

Prerequisite: Proficiency with longspear, Mounted Combat

You can use a longspear one-handed while mounted. While mounted, the reach of the long spear only extends in the direction your mount is facing.

Any comments?

[Fede]

I think that making a feat that is based on facing opens a big can of worms, because it's based on a concept that is purposefully left out by the designers.

What about this alternative?

Lance Fighting [Feat]

Prerequisite: Proficiency with longspear, Mounted Combat

You can use a longspear one-handed while mounted. While charging a creature smaller than your mount you deal an extra [w] on a hit, and knock the target prone on a critical hit.

I'm not sure about the extra [w], maybe it's better to change it to another kind of bonus

[Mesh Hong]

Lance Fighting [Feat]

Prerequisite: Proficiency with longspear, Mounted Combat

You can use a longspear one-handed while mounted. While charging a creature smaller than your mount you deal an extra [w] on a hit, and knock the target prone on a critical hit.

I think this is pretty solid and seems fair enough for a heroic tier feat. Personally I would like a little more chance of knocking the target prone. The only ways I can see of doing it are either adding a secondary attack Strength vs. Fortitude or increasing the Crit range.

A secondary attack could be a bit cumbersome (adding more dice rolling)
Increasing the crit range would probably be a bad idea

You maybe also add a secondary feat (paragon level maybe?)

Joust Trained Knight [Feat]
Prerequisite: Lance Fighting

When weilding a longspear while mounted you may move up to your mounts speed and make 1 "Lance Fighting" attack at any point (after moving at least 2 squares) moving away from the target of this attack does not provoke opportunity attacks.

[Fede]

No, wait a second. Rereading what i have written i'd say that adding an extra [w] is way overpowered... it's probably more balanced this way

Lance Fighting [Feat]
Prerequisite: Proficiency with longspear, Mounted Combat
You can use a longspear one-handed while mounted. While charging a creature smaller than your mount you knock the target prone on a critical hit.

Using the longspear one-handed is about valuable as a weapon proficiency feat, and the part about the critical hit is similar to the surprise knockdown feat. The balancing factor should be that you have to be mounted, so it's not always available...
Also, i'm not sure about having "mounted combat" as a prerequisite. It makes totally sense, but i seem to remember that feats in 4E can't have other feats as prerequisite (eg. no feat chains).

[Mesh Hong]

I don't know, maybe I should stick to designing monsters

The way I look at it I would have no problem in giving a monster bonus damage on a "charge only" attack, so why should it be any different for a player.

Maybe +1 [w] is too strong for a feat (again I have no experience in designing feats), how about +2 damage? I can see the arguement that normally charging doesn't give you any bonus to damage, only attack. But then again charging is a standard action, this feat is an improvement of that standard action in a sepecific circumstance.

[Fede]

Originally Posted by Mesh Hong

The way I look at it I would have no problem in giving a monster bonus damage on a "charge only" attack, so why should it be any different for a player.

Because players characters and monsters follow different rules.
Adding 1[w] to a longspear attack means 1d10 additional damage on a charge. Compare that alone to powerful charge (+2 damage and +2 to bull rush attempts on a charge).
1d10 is much better than +2, and with my first version of the feat you got that in addition to the longspear "onehandedness" and the prone on crit.

[Mesh Hong]

yeah, maybe I should read the players handbook a bit more thoroughly before I wade into commenting on feats in future.

[Starfox]

My lance is a +2 accuracy one handed 1d8 weapon (no reach) that adds 1d8 damage on a charge. Its a military weapon.

I can certainly see the lance as a superior weapon (provided it is balanced for it).

In 3E the lance was a reach weapon. I think that was a mistake. Since there was no pike, spearmen on foot did not have a range advantage against the lance, which seemed very odd to me. The reason to give the lance reach was that it could then attack reach creatures without triggering AoS, but that is no longer a problem in 4E.

[Paul Strack]

Hmm. Taking reach away from the lance certainly does solve a lot of problems. I keep thinking of a jousting lance, but that's a tournament weapon. In real combat, you would probably want a more flexible weapon, a shorter spear that could be used when not charging.

[Paul Strack]

How about this:

Lance (Military Weapon): 1d8; +2 prof.; 10 gp; 7 lb.; Spear; Versatile; does 1d8 extra damage on a mounted charge.

Long Lance (Superior Weapon): 1d10; +2 prof.; 10 gp; 7 lb.; Spear; Versatile; does 1d10 extra damage on a mounted charge.

Those are comparable with a longsword and a bastard sword, with lower proficiency matched against the bonus charge damage.

[Fede]

I think that the extra damage on charge is overpowered, i'd remove it and make it high crit (or, remove it and make a feat for additional "mounted charge" stuff).

[Paul Strack]

Originally Posted by Fede

I think that the extra damage on charge is overpowered, i'd remove it and make it high crit (or, remove it and make a feat for additional "mounted charge" stuff).

OK. How about the following:

Lance (Military Weapon): 1d10; +2 prof.; 15 gp; 6 lb.; Spear; Versatile

Heavy Lance (Superior Weapon): 1d12; +2 prof.; 30 gp; 10 lb.; Axe; Versatile

Other than the weapon group, these are identical to Battleaxe and Waraxe.

Lance Fighting [Feat]

Your gain a +4 feat bonus to damage when making a mounted charge with a lance or heavy lance.

This is double the bonus for powerful charge, but is a lot more situational. It also won't stack with weapon focus.