4e Fan Creations and House RulesWorking on variant powers? Statting up a PC race or your version of a monster? Creating or converting an adventure? Put it here!
Sorry for taking so long for those who were interested. Otherwise: "Howdy!" to those new to my ideas. Please peruse my work as you wish and let me know what you think.
I've tried to implement some of the ideas presented by ya'll from my previous version, and hope the constructive criticism continues!
Not bad at all. It looks well thought out and very thorough. I have one player that might want to try this out, and from what I've read, it should be pretty well balanced with the other PC's.
Thanks! I put a lot of thought and work into it. I always strive for balance in my designs too. I'd love to hear of any usage of the class. Feedback can only make it better.
My one friend has rolled one up to use tonight. He can't thank you enough! The only reason that he misses 3.5 edition is because WOTC hadn't released the Psionic stuff yet. I'll let you know how he liked it after tonight's session.
Awsome! Good luck and please fill me in when you can on how it goes.
Yeah, the main reason I did it was because I can't find a single place on the net that provided a 4th edition version of the Psion yet, and as far as I'm concerned, should have been a priority for Wotc for the PHB 2 or at least the Eberron player's guide...
Eberron without psionics...it just doesn't make sense to me.
Only one word or two (because I didn't read the entire class) :
- you could add the implement keyword to powers that need it (essentially, nearly all attack powers)
- almost every WotC paragon path has an ability at 11th level that improves the use of an action point. Maybe you should do that to ^^
Otherwise, it's a great work !
__________________ There is no dark side of the moon really. Matters of fact, all is dark.
We played the Psion from 1st to 2nd level on Friday night. Our first encounter ended up as a TPK (1st we ever had in 4th ed), but not due to the shortcomings of one character or another. I decided to let the guys bring the characters back (we aren't that realistic!) and learn from their mistakes. As a party, they need to stick together, and they knew it. Of course, the guys realize that this gift is a one time only thing.
So once the guys learned the hard way, every encounter from that point on went well. The psion's ability to grant CA along with the Rogue's sneak attack worked together really well. My friend that runs the psion enjoyed the character and plans on keeping him for the long run. One of his favorite powers involved blasting up all the debris and dust in the area to give the party total concealment from the enemies. This helped in fighting a goblin acolyte and his considerable power.
We play again on Saturday, and the party will reach 3rd level in two more encounters.
Okay why use int or chr for the attack, then link damage to con?
Daze ENT on an at will? no thanks. seems a little overpowered, how about daze on a crit?
Formatting - color coding, or relabeling each power as encounter/daily/at will would be helpful.
the Good:
The mindlink requirement is a reasonable version of the hunters quarry/warlock curse.
The Wilders surge is good to, the once a day per tier & surge cost seem well balanced.
Hmm lots of daze and stun powers under level 10, I'm not going to a comparison with existing powers.
Its too close to PHBII release, and thats enough to take in at one time.
If psionics isn't part of PHBIII I will give a lot more thought to using a homebrew version. Psionics is written into my worlds, I just have to keep it scarce and undefined for now, but i may steal some of your powers for NPCs
good luck.
__________________ Game Quote:
"Shut up! a giant blue smurf eats your character...zzzz"
(sometimes its important to stop gaming and sleep)
"You all are the worst emissaries, ever!" the silver dragon declares, shaking with rage.
"Its a game, a game, I'm only playing. " E. Wiggen My PbP games , Roll Dice
Last edited by Evilhalfling; 23rd February 2009 at 05:16 PM..
Okay why use int or chr for the attack, then link damage to con?
Daze ENT on an at will? no thanks. seems a little overpowered, how about daze on a crit?
Formatting - color coding, or relabeling each power as encounter/daily/at will would be helpful.
the Good:
The mindlink requirement is a reasonable version of the hunters quarry/warlock curse.
The Wilders surge is good to, the once a day per tier & surge cost seem well balanced.
Hmm lots of daze and stun powers under level 10, I'm not going to a comparison with existing powers.
Its too close to PHBII release, and thats enough to take in at one time.
If psionics isn't part of PHBIII I will give a lot more thought to using a homebrew version. Psionics is written into my worlds, I just have to keep it scarce and undefined for now, but i may steal some of your powers for NPCs
good luck.
I used Con for damage for different reasons.
A friend (and Game Master) of mine pointed out that if you linked all the powers to either Int or Cha, all they need to do to maximize their potential is put all their stat level increases into that one stat. Min/Maxing can be fun, but it is not balanced. Also, if you notice most of the spell casting classes use different stats for different powers (The swordmage is a good example off the top of my head). Con was an obvious choice because it had links to the older versions of psionics, and it represents the Psion's body's ability to handle the power his intellect represents. He may have the potential to level mountains with his mind, but can his "mortal" body handle the stress of that power?
As far as the Daze/Stun thing at low levels:
I stressed over that a lot, especially for balance. Even my wife pointed ot that it seemed a little over the top. However, I looked at it like this--Its their "thing." Clerics heal. Fighters fight. Mages blow things up real well. Psions get into people's minds and f__k things up. Hence the basic nature of the psion is to Daze or Stun. Its that simple. Thats generally, their most basic combat ability.
I like your comments on why the daze/stun thing. Keep the damage low, and knock them off their game plan with psychic energy. Our PC's like to daze as much as possible, yet they still ended up with a TPK. We don't believe that the psion is overpowered so far. I'll give it at least one more play session to see if we feel like the psion is over the top. The guys will have a face off against the main boss bad guy this Saturday. He is alone, and very tough, but will the psion make the fight short lived due to his daze abilities and the fact that the bad guy has no help? We shall see...
I think, the two builds should be telekinesis and telepathy.
Also as written, this class is a controller and not a striker.
The wilder could be a paragon class, a feat, a utility power or a combination of all of these.
Settle on a single main stat and make CON and whichever other stat secondary stats. For instance, if you choose INT as your main stat make CHA and CON as you secondary stats. I however think that WIS seems to be a pretty good stat for a class like this - willpower and perception/insight and all. Perhaps, WIS for the main stat and CHA for Telepathy and INT for Telekinesis. Just a thought...
These are the skills you have listed in your document:
Athletics (Str), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Int), Perception (Wis)
By raw, nature is a WIS based skill. They might be served well with Arcana or a new skill called Psionics or something that allows them to do Arcana like stuff with psionic things. Also why athletics?
I think the name "psi-crystal" should be reserved for a psionic familiar. Additionally the psi-crystals power is very powerful it is very similar to some very upper level class features. Instead, give them a token ability to boost insight and or perception skills both seem very in sync with a telepath.
The wilder's surge ability should be removed, it is way overpowered as written. This would make several feats that key on rolling a critical very powerful. Again I feel that the concept of "surging" is better suited to a paragon class, a feat, a utility power or a combination of all of these. Make the two builds TK and TP.
I like what you have and look forward to more updates.
Mindlink needs to be a Ritual. The mile long range goes against the grain of the design behind 4E for a class feature, especially against unwilling targets (reference Scrying). Requirement - one willing participant
Telepathy needs to be 20 squares and a minor action, or line of sight would be appropriate. Requirement - one willing participant at heroic, two at paragon and three at epic. Dump the mindlink requirement.
Psicrystal shouldn't require an hour of meditation. Allow the psion to refresh a power with the expenditure of an Action Point for Encounter/two Action points for a Daily.
Power names - while they hearken back to the old 2nd edition Psionics, I'd reexamine what you're naming some of your powers. 4E has taken strides to eliminate what could be considered anachronistic to the feel of the setting. Reference the word teleport; it's merely a game mechanic reference, as opposed to a power name now.
Alter Reality
I'd limit this, like in a serious way. I would not make it contingent of what the Psion has seen, as a player is rarely going to remember what he's been hit with or seen in the past. I'd have the player choose whatever he/she chooses. It needs to be a Utility power that is free to use; and the player then uses the chosen power as whatever normal action that it acts as.
Spiritbond
This needs to be a Utility power, as all stances are. Limit the effects until the end of the encounter, otherwise, you'll run into some serious exploitation. Furthermore, it needs to be a Minor action. Cut some of the bonuses down to make it balanced against level 22 Utility powers.
Doppleganger
Stance issue, once again. Move this to level 22 Utility power, and reexamine how it could be exploited in battle. This is one of the powers that bothers me the most, simply due to that it's pretty much left for interpretation (which breaks the design fundamentals of 4E).
Dragonform
Stance issue, once again. Move this to level 22 Utility power, and make power adjustments accordingly.
Crystal Armor
Stance issue, once again. Move this to level 22 Utility power, and make power adjustments accordingly.
I'm done tearing apart powers, but the Heroic powers seem well-balanced. The Paragon ones I'd question, and the Epic are utterly imbalanced.
There's a monster (can't recall the name) in the 4e Monster Manual that has the ability to split itself into psychic "clones" that only inflict psychic damage, and all share a part of the HPs.
This could be a very high level psionic power for a paragon path or epic destiny.
I think, the two builds should be telekinesis and telepathy.
Also as written, this class is a controller and not a striker.
The wilder could be a paragon class, a feat, a utility power or a combination of all of these.
Settle on a single main stat and make CON and whichever other stat secondary stats. For instance, if you choose INT as your main stat make CHA and CON as you secondary stats. I however think that WIS seems to be a pretty good stat for a class like this - willpower and perception/insight and all. Perhaps, WIS for the main stat and CHA for Telepathy and INT for Telekinesis. Just a thought...
These are the skills you have listed in your document:
Athletics (Str), Endurance (Con), Heal (Wis), History (Int), Insight (Wis), Nature (Int), Perception (Wis)
By raw, nature is a WIS based skill. They might be served well with Arcana or a new skill called Psionics or something that allows them to do Arcana like stuff with psionic things. Also why athletics?
I think the name "psi-crystal" should be reserved for a psionic familiar. Additionally the psi-crystals power is very powerful it is very similar to some very upper level class features. Instead, give them a token ability to boost insight and or perception skills both seem very in sync with a telepath.
The wilder's surge ability should be removed, it is way overpowered as written. This would make several feats that key on rolling a critical very powerful. Again I feel that the concept of "surging" is better suited to a paragon class, a feat, a utility power or a combination of all of these. Make the two builds TK and TP.
I like what you have and look forward to more updates.
Thank you for your comments.
I have carefully considered your reply and feel I have to explain a few of my reasonings from your points.
First, I did not build a specific Telepath or Telekinetic specialist on purpose. If a player wants to, they can build one merely by choosing the right powers. Heck I even created the Mind-Mage Paragon path just for those who wanted the "Telepath Master" concept. I have even envisioned an "Evolved" Epic path that allows the Psion to become (temporarily) pure psionic energy, without a body! (Haven't worked out the details yet). I have always believed that in character creation, it is a lot more fun to have an option than to be forced into a certain direction.
As far as the Psion being a Controller rather than a Striker, well I've heard many opinions on this, and really the Psion doesn't fit perfectly into any category. I mainly picked Striker because people complained that the Psion NEEDED to be something, and I assumed most people would pick Mind Thrust as one of their inital powers 9 times out of 10. I really don't care. I've never really liked the "Typing" of classes concept in 4th edition all that much. Sure its a great way to "catagorize" the classes, but I think that's one of the reasons the Psion is soo cool. It can litterally fit in anywhere if it wants to, just on how you put your powers and feats together.
I like the Wilder as a build concept beause I feel like its the best way to show someone who has grown up naturally with all this power, and very little discipline or control. I keep imagining a litle kid sitting in a dark room with all the objects in the room flying around in his rage, all because his parents made him go to bed without supper..
As far as using Int, Cha, or Wis: I have always looked at Telepaths being purely mentally focused (Int) who look inward and believe pure thought has power and Wilders as being emotionally focused (Cha) who gain their strength from their emotions and self-knowledge. I have always looked at Wis as being more based on a self awareness of those things beyond one's self (such as Faith, Philosophy, and how we percieve the surrounding world and others). So there it is. While wisdom is very useful to Psions, it doesn't represent their main focus in my opinion. Con (as I've mentioned before) is mainly used as a guage for a Psion's power, showing how much they can stand the strain from using their power. I also didn't want to Limit a Telepath to Int or a Wilder to Cha. I felt a good role-player would find a Cha based Telepath or an Int based Wilder an interesting and believeable concept to play!
As far as skills go, I'll explain why I chose them, then explain why I didn't create a "Psionics" skill.
Athletics - I chose athletics because I felt it went in line with the thought that many psions would agree with: A healthy body lends greatly to a healthy mind. Also the healthier the body, the more power you can unleash!
Endurance - See Athletics, Plus many Telepaths or Wilders might be persecuted and forced to live a life on the run. Tends to toughen you up.
Heal - It just made sense. Especially for those intending to learn healing powers or again for those who have had to learn how to take care of themselves on the run.
History/Nature - In order to learn more about their abilities many Psions would turn to sources of learning. History teaches about former masters of psionics, and Nature is gained when Psions use Nature as a guide to their abilities (Such as observing animals or monsters with abilities similar to Psions, etc...) I felt dungeneering was not appropriate, but many would argue that learning about mosters like Illithids or the Githyanki/Githzerai could teach them as well.
Insight/Perception : These just made sense to me, wisdom based or not.
I did not add a Psionics Skill, nor did I add Arcana to the class, because I felt it is not neccessary. I felt the simplification of the skill system works, and adding a skill just for the class, didn't make sense to me. You can work almost anything you would use a Psionics skill check with another skill. Arcana can make sense, but not all GMs allow Psionics and Magic to mix. Some consider them anathema to each other. I felt that if a GM wanted to make the Psions another verion of magic users then by all means add Arcana to the skill list, or even make it a required choice. Please feel free to change anything you want to fit your campain and your GM style as far as I'm concerned. I'm just trying to make this version of the class as interesting, balanced, and fun to as many people as possible.
My version of the Psi-Crystal was mainly created to balance the Telepath with the Wilder's Surge ability. I always felt that a talking "pet rock" that always agreed with you was kinda...silly. At least magical items with personalities could clash with their owners. I wanted a psi-crystal to mean something to the Telepath, but not have to worry about giving it sentience, especially since the Familiar rules have not come out yet. (We'll see what the PHB 2 does with Familiars, and then I'll go from there...)
I feel the Wild Surge ability is useful and balanced. It does give a tremendous boost, IF the Wilder hits it's target, the roll to hit isn't a natural critical causing him to loose one or more healing surges for nothing, and if he has any healing surges left. Not to mention that if he uses up his healing surges, he can't heal! For a temporary boost, its very useful, but not guaranteed. Plus its just a plain neat ability! BTW, I specifically put the bonuses on criticals for certain powers (Mainly TK attacks) because that is where a Wilder's powers tend to lend themselves. Just as Bonuses to Mindlinked individuals lend themselves to Mental powers. As Telepaths are mainly mentalists, I felt this balanced the Critcal Bonuses, because a Telepath can still roll criticals when using TK powers, and Wilders can use the Mindlink bonuses when they are using mental powers. Again it just feels right.
Thank you for your comments. I hope I successfully explained my design choices. Please, everyone feel free to comment. I would not have posted this class if I didn't want it, or my ideas scrutinized.
There's a monster (can't recall the name) in the 4e Monster Manual that has the ability to split itself into psychic "clones" that only inflict psychic damage, and all share a part of the HPs.
This could be a very high level psionic power for a paragon path or epic destiny.
I'll have to look that one up...
Sounds like it might make more sense than a similar version I already created.
If you noticed I already referenced a couple of monsters from the 4th Edition MM already in some of the powers. Those were a great way to figure out some balance issues and give me new ideas on certain things.
Mindlink needs to be a Ritual. The mile long range goes against the grain of the design behind 4E for a class feature, especially against unwilling targets (reference Scrying). Requirement - one willing participant
Telepathy needs to be 20 squares and a minor action, or line of sight would be appropriate. Requirement - one willing participant at heroic, two at paragon and three at epic. Dump the mindlink requirement.
Psicrystal shouldn't require an hour of meditation. Allow the psion to refresh a power with the expenditure of an Action Point for Encounter/two Action points for a Daily.
Power names - while they hearken back to the old 2nd edition Psionics, I'd reexamine what you're naming some of your powers. 4E has taken strides to eliminate what could be considered anachronistic to the feel of the setting. Reference the word teleport; it's merely a game mechanic reference, as opposed to a power name now.
I purposely stayed away from rituals. I felt Psionic rituals made sense, but I wanted to perfect the class first before I tackled them.
Mindlink I felt should be a Psion's most basic ability. Even for Wilders. The range is what makes it truly unique among the other classes abilities to"Mark" targets and such, and really doesn't provide any sort of real bonus as line of sight is generally hard to gain over any great distance, and almost all the mental powers can't effect anything past 20 squares most of time anyway, and are usually much less! The few minor non-combat bonuses that Mindlink gives, are generally minor and mostly a reason to attempt the Mindlink at distances.
I limited the Range on Telepathy because I feel it was meant to be short ranged. If you look at the monsters in the Monster Manual who have Telepathy, most of their ranges are pretty short I believe. Besides, by keeping Telepathy short means someone dominating another's mind must be close by (on the field of battle) rather than far away and out of harm's path.
I don't see why the Hour meditiation on creating a psi-crystal matters. The main reason for adding the hour to the ability description is so that losing one ends up being at least an inconvienience and can't be accomplished in the middle of battle. Although I haven't thought about using action points to control the Psi-Crystal ability. I am seriously thinking to make a change like that on the next update. Thank you!
As far as names of powers go, I could care less. Just as the WOTC says to change the names on any power to whatever you want, you could do so here. I mainly used old power names for my favorite powers. I also used older edition power names for inspiration when I needed a power and wanted to keep the original reference for flavor.
Alter Reality
I'd limit this, like in a serious way. I would not make it contingent of what the Psion has seen, as a player is rarely going to remember what he's been hit with or seen in the past. I'd have the player choose whatever he/she chooses. It needs to be a Utility power that is free to use; and the player then uses the chosen power as whatever normal action that it acts as.
Spiritbond
This needs to be a Utility power, as all stances are. Limit the effects until the end of the encounter, otherwise, you'll run into some serious exploitation. Furthermore, it needs to be a Minor action. Cut some of the bonuses down to make it balanced against level 22 Utility powers.
Doppleganger
Stance issue, once again. Move this to level 22 Utility power, and reexamine how it could be exploited in battle. This is one of the powers that bothers me the most, simply due to that it's pretty much left for interpretation (which breaks the design fundamentals of 4E).
Dragonform
Stance issue, once again. Move this to level 22 Utility power, and make power adjustments accordingly.
Crystal Armor
Stance issue, once again. Move this to level 22 Utility power, and make power adjustments accordingly.
I'm done tearing apart powers, but the Heroic powers seem well-balanced. The Paragon ones I'd question, and the Epic are utterly imbalanced.
I felt making Alter Reality a full round action made sense and helps balance the power.
I also limited the power to what the character has seen because: How often do people try things they have never seen? How do they know its even possible if they haven't seen or tried it before? Since I feel "belief" is a strong component of all Psionic powers, I felt any Psion would hesitate greatly before trying something they have never seen before.
As far as Stances go, I like them. There is nothing so far that says Stances have to be utility powers, and it helps again to make the class unique. I'd bet $5 I don't have that when the offical "monks" come out they will have Stances out the Wazoo in places undreamed of.
JMHO however.
I have been accused before of putting powers in the wrong catagory before. You are welcome to put them anywhere you wish of course. I will however, go over the ones you pointed out. I am already contemplating a major change to the Doppleganger power already.
The higher level the power is, the harder they are to balance, so please bear with me on those. It is hard to find groups willing to play-test self-made classes in the 15th -30th level range just to test out a few powers. That's why all of your opinions are appreciated. I may not always agree, but each comment gives me a new perspective on my design I didn't see before.
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