4e Fan Creations and House RulesWorking on variant powers? Statting up a PC race or your version of a monster? Creating or converting an adventure? Put it here!
This is a *very* rough start. It will need a lot of tweaking, but it gives a general idea of what I'm working on. It's not very good yet, but I'll be doing quite a bit more work on it, balancing it out.
When I finish this, I expect I'll sell it as a PDF. But you're welcome to take a look at it as it stands now.
Ignore the fluff text - I'll probably rewrite it all. Just wanted to get some words on paperl
(The art piece is by Claudio Pozas).
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Last edited by Morrus; 19th March 2009 at 01:59 PM..
I'm not a rules/balance guy so I can't speak towards that (and as you said, you are still working on those aspects), but I like the idea of highlighting the individuality of each Dragonborn (or the potential to do so with this) via powers like these.
The only thing that sticks out to me is, for example, having wings, but only being able to "use" them in a given fashion once per encounter - as with the "Gliding Hop" ability for example. For things that are more "magical" in nature I guess it's easier to understand - but with things that are physically there always (wings in this case) for them to only function a limited amount of times is a little odd to me. I understand of course why these things work that way, it just sticks out (to me).
With that said though, and as I mentioned above, I like it and look forward to seeing it come together. It's definitely a good start!
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Also wanted to mention that future books of this nature I would also love to see (as you plan on doing them), especially the Halflings... poor guys get such a bad wrap, maybe you can make them appealing to more people (I don't mind them at all)
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Dark Water Campaign run in the Last Lands
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Last edited by weem; 19th March 2009 at 04:15 AM..
Reason: for halfling note!
Looks pretty good, Morrus. One thing you might want to watch out for with respect to the attack powers is to include some kind of to hit bonus that scales by tier to make up for the lack of an enhancement bonus from a weapon or an implement (see the base dragon breath racial power for an example).
I like the idea. I didn't look through everything but I did look through the lower level powers. Here is some feedback:
Create some new keywords to make your text a bit cleaner.
1. DA: Dragonbreath Attack (instead of str+2 or dex+2 or con+2, increase to +4/+6 etc wording)
2. [d]: Dragonbreath damage die
3. [N]: Natural weapon damage die
4. Dragonbreath Type: instead of acid, cold, fire, etc.
Snarling Bite: Way too powerful as an at-will power. Add Twin Strike or Dual Strike into the mix, and you could be attacking 4 times a round. Here is a different idea:
Snarling Bite Dragonborn Attack 1 At-will Melee 1 Standard Action Target(s): 1 creature. Attack: DA vs. Reflex Hit: 1[N]. Your next DA attack against the target before the end of your next turn deals an additional [d] damage if it hits.
Draconic Rage: Seems a bit weak for a daily. I'd be tempted to make it a close burst 2, and change damage to [d]+Constitution.
Dragon Spit: To give you an example of how much simpler this power could look:
Dragonspit Dragonborn Attack 1 You spit of glob of energy at a distant opponent. Encounter ● Dragonbreath Type Minor Action Ranged 5 Target(s): One creature Attack: DA vs. Reflex Hit: 1[d] + Constitution modifier damage.
On a related note, you could make an addendum to this power and similar ranged powers that says if you have Hurl Breath feat, increase range by 5 squares.
Elemental Hide: Seems a little too powerful as an encounter power with a sustain. I'd either get rid of the sustain, or make it a daily power.
That's about all I have time for at the moment, maybe I'll take a look at the rest later. Hope this was helpful.
Edit: Grrr, I don't know why it keeps converting ["D"] to [d].
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Last edited by Mengu; 19th March 2009 at 03:12 PM..
Snarling Bite: Way too powerful as an at-will power. Add Twin Strike or Dual Strike into the mix, and you could be attacking 4 times a round.
Maybe. I was trying to make folks have a reason to take it - otherwise it's no better than a basic attack. Maybe reducing the damage to just Strength modifer?
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Draconic Rage: Seems a bit weak for a daily. I'd be tempted to make it a close burst 2, and change damage to [d]+Constitution.
You think? I played with that one a bit. Essentially, I needed a daily attack of that level (only level 1). Perhaps increasing the damage (but remember the secondary effect also), but I'm not sure about the burst 2; as a melee attack I'd rathe rkeep it burst 1.
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Elemental Hide: Seems a little too powerful as an encounter power with a sustain. I'd either get rid of the sustain, or make it a daily power.
Yeah, perhaps. Bear in mind the energy type is locked in from character creation. But dropping the sustain might be a good idea.
Maybe. I was trying to make folks have a reason to take it - otherwise it's no better than a basic attack. Maybe reducing the damage to just Strength modifer?
Even then, as long as you keep it a minor action, every dragonborn rogue would take this power. 3 chances to deal sneak attack damage? Nothing beats that. Some of the rogue and ranger encounter powers from MP that allow an attack as a minor action are on the high end of the power curve. Giving an at-will attack as a minor action is definitely too powerful in any form.
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Originally Posted by Morrus
You think? I played with that one a bit. Essentially, I needed a daily attack of that level (only level 1). Perhaps increasing the damage (but remember the secondary effect also), but I'm not sure about the burst 2; as a melee attack I'd rathe rkeep it burst 1.
Without the bump to damage, I don't think it's a very attractive option. And because it's an immediate reaction, it may be very difficult to get optimal bang for the power if it's a close burst 1. That's why I suggested bumping up the radius. You want dailies to reliably do something good. I think as long as you up the damage, burst 1 may still be ok, needs testing, though it's still not something I'd pick at first level.
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Snarling Bite - currently broken. You could consider making it more specialized (something extra that triggers on opportunity attacks or as an immediate action), more effective but a standard action such as by adding conditions, a bonus attack when you crit (similar to the dagger master PP), or any number of other options. Also, it may be worth remembering that minor actions can carry a 1/round tag. For example, it could be a minor 1/round that requires that you miss with a melee attack that round before you use it.
Whirlwind Breath presumably doesn't use up the normal breath weapon use? If it did, it should be a minor action, like the normal breath weapon (and possibly just be a feat). The special should also give you the option to increase the radius, not automatically increase it. It seems a little weak for an encounter, otherwise. Consider that a ranger's Dire Wolverine Stance will do, say, 1d10 and include enhancement and feat bonus to damage for instance. I think you could get away with 2d6. Should Empowered Dragonbreath help at all here?
Draconic Rage is too weak as a daily (at least, assuming it actually replaces a daily 1 attack power). I'd say you could safely add a die of damage and push 1 straight to the Hit line. Also, you don't need to put 'If you hit' on the 'Hit' line... by definition Be aware that the chance to hit with this power is not that great, with no implement or weapon bonus, and no +2/+4/+6 like the racial power gets. It also has no 'Miss'.
Dragonspit feels weak, but as a minor action I'm not sure it is. I'd want to take that for a whirl a bit - I could definitely see a class with a strong at-will (like the Ranger) liking it.
Elemental Hide - as a reaction, this won't help you against the attack that triggered it I assume you know but maybe not. That plus the sustain minor is interesting. I suspect interrupt would be simpler, but the way you have is very powerful for fights against energy themed creatures... like dragons.
Bathed in Fire - Miss on an encounter power is different and interesting. Again, assuming it doesn't use up your dragonbreath and should empowered dragonbreath help?
Tail Slap - It seems odd for tails to do 'W' damage, but I'm guessing that's covered. I'd be tempted to go 1W + slide 1, but that's just personal pref, seems good.
Dragon Awe - Playtest this puppy a bit, as AoE stun that ignores friendlies is a pretty big deal. My gut is that it's too low level but don't have time to research better.
Three Legs Are Better Than Two - This has to be an interrupt...
Controlled Glide - This should probably be a Free Action
Wzter Breathing - should probably give a +4 bonus. Ignoring cover due to water seems odd for ranged/area attacks just cause you can breath water...
Tail Sweep - Cool. Dex to hit and Str to damage is interesting... does make it difficult for fighter/paladin/melee rangers, but very good for brutal scoundrels...
Okay, taking a break there, this is a mountain of powers.
First.... AMAZING WORK! I have been (for years now) working on a game world that has a continent ruled by dragons and their noble houses. Dragonborn (formerly half-dragons) are the highest ranking humanoids (along with kobolds, which are draconic in my world) in their caste system, basically being the nobles and chosen of the draconic houses. I've really been hoping to see material like this, expanding a lot more on racial abilities.
On another note, Goodman Games also has a book out related to this "Hero's Handbook - Dragonborn" that people interested in this might want to check out.
Second... onto the MECH...
FEATS
I would suggest an initial feat for dragonborn natural weapons.
Dragonborn Martial Training Prerequisites: Dragonborn, any martial class Benefits: You are no longer considered unarmed when not carrying a weapon. You gain a set of basic attacks using claw and tooth, that deal 1d6 damage. Your claws count as a double weapon (1d6/1d6 damage) for all feats and powers that require the use of two weapons. Special: Natural weapon attacks denote the use of natural weapons as [NW].
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"Enhanced Natural Weapon (Paragon) Natural weapon damage for a Dragonborn is 1d10."
Normal: Natural weapon damage for a Dragonborn is 1d6.
I see where this came from, since their breath increases from d6's to d10's. However, I would say this is too powerful for melee [W] attacks. Increasing from 1d6 to 1d10 is the equivalent of 2 size increases. I would suggest, to keep more in line with a Paragon feat, one of the following.
Your dragonborn natural weapons increase from 1d6 to 1d8.
Treat dragonborn natural weapons as high crit weapons.
What did you have in mind specifically for Tail and Wing feats?
Personally, I would make them both Paragon level feats. My verdict is out currently on flight as it is something I am chewing over since the new Dragonborn PP in PHB2. As for the tail, I would do something along the lines of:
Dragonborn Tail Prerequisites: 11th level, Dragonborn Benefits: You tapped into your inner draconic heritage and through a process of meditation and magical ritual (see Evolution Ritual) you have developed a draconic tail. This tail grants you a +1 feat bonus to Acrobatics and Athletics checks as well as a +1 feat bonus to Reflex due to your increased balance.
POWERS
First I have to say I love the idea of being able to choose between Racial and Class powers freely, without having to spend a Feat slot to do a "Power Swap". I personally think that avenue is a penalty to character development.
Now, on specific powers.
One thing I would note, that as I suggested on feats above, these powers SHOULD require some level of Prerequisite to take. For instance, "Snarling Bite" would require the "Dragonborn Martial Training" feat.
Snarling Bite: Too powerful. The same basic At-Will attack that every class has, but as a Minor Action? Far too powerful. I would suggest:
SNARLING BITE Dragonborn Attack 1 Prerequsite: Dragonborn Martial Training At-Will * Martial, Natural Weapon
Standard Action * Melee 1
Target: One creature Attack: Make a Grab attack (PHB 290) Hit: The enemy is immobilized until it escapes or you end the grab. Your enemy can attempt to escape on its turn. Make a secondary attack. Secondary Attack: Strength vs. Reflex Hit: 1[NW] + 1/2 Strength modifier damage.
Agree with keterys on a lot of these. If you want more specific feedback based on the samples above, I'd be happy to go through it some more.
Three Legs Are Better Than Two Dragonborn Utility 6 Most Dragonborn do not have tails. You do, however. You use your tail to stabilize yourself and prevent a fall. Encounter Immediate Reaction Prerequisite: Dragon Tail feat. Trigger: You are knocked prone. Effect: You cannot be knocked prone until the end of your next turn.
The flavor text suggests that you do not fall prone. If that is the intent then you need to make this an immediate interrupt rather than an immediate reaction. If that is not the intent then I am not sure what good this power does anybody because you'll be prone until your next turn anyway.
Some great feedback guys - thanks! I'm going to revise the document incorporating a bunch of your suggestions. I'll post the revised version when I'm done!
I'll try and tackle the rest of the powers after my game late tonight, but... we'll see. Playing dnd four times this weekend, so may be hard to get a spare minute (yeah, that's a good kinda problem)
And, just cause I missed it on the powers feedback - hells yes I like this kinda thing. Good idea, keep it up, etc
On another note, Goodman Games also has a book out related to this "Hero's Handbook - Dragonborn" that people interested in this might want to check out.
I know of it, but I'm deliberately not looking at it.
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I would suggest an initial feat for dragonborn natural weapons.
I think that would defeat the point of the whole racial power concept. Once you have to buy it, people aren't going to bother - they're not any more powerful than regular powers, so why not save the feat and just buy a class power instead? Without the feat expenditure, people are more likely to select racial feats.
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What did you have in mind specifically for Tail and Wing feats?
Some minor bonuses (balance related - Acrobatics, probably) but primarlily access to the tail and wing powers.
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Personally, I would make them both Paragon level feats.
I can't do that and retain low level powers related to them. I want the flavour to kick in early, not at paragon level.
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First I have to say I love the idea of being able to choose between Racial and Class powers freely, without having to spend a Feat slot to do a "Power Swap". I personally think that avenue is a penalty to character development.
I agree. The idea isn't to discourage people from taking racial powers by making them pay extra for them.
The flavor text suggests that you do not fall prone. If that is the intent then you need to make this an immediate interrupt rather than an immediate reaction. If that is not the intent then I am not sure what good this power does anybody because you'll be prone until your next turn anyway.
Be aware that the chance to hit with this power is not that great, with no implement or weapon bonus, and no +2/+4/+6 like the racial power gets. It also has no 'Miss'.
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