Class 4E Gestalt in play

[Halivar]

A couple weeks ago, I tried an experiment: I ported the 3.5 gestalt rules over to 4E, with some necessary caveats, had my players make a couple level 8 gestalt characters, and tested them out in play.

First, I had each player roll standard (4d6-drop-1), but had them take the best two stats, and make them both 18's (to fight MAD and allow them to pick classes that don't synergize on the same stat).

Then I had them pick two classes. For each class, take the better of the two in defenses, hit-points, etc, take all the class abilities for both, but only retain a single line of feats.

For each class, they received all the powers they were entitled to for that level. IOW, they had 4 at-wills, 6 encounters, 4 dailies, and 4 utility powers.

The first effect in the game was expected: against monsters of their own level, they destroyed with aplomb. Minions, in particular, were shredded quite easily because they weren't as cautious with their dailies.

The characters in play were a Rogue/Sorceror, a Wizard/Swordmage, and a Paladin/Barbarian. The Wizard/Swordmage was an effective damage dealer (hit him, take damage; don't hit him, provoke a teleport attack). The Paladin/Barbarian was also brutal.

The three characters took on a level 10 Solo and took it down quickly, though at the loss of the Rogue/Sorceror, who died. Dice rolls were average, and probably indicative of normal, regular play.

The result is that gestalt seems to work VERY well with a limited number of players. With someone having a Cleric gestalt, the party probably would have come out whole. Players appreciated not having to ration so much, and felt very empowered. At the same time, bumping up the level of the monsters by 2 seemed to provide an appropriate challenge for them, so they got nothing for free. The biggest plus, of course, was the gestalt class-flavor-mixing goodness from 3.x.

I intend to run a short campaign in the future using these rules to see how they work at lower levels, also.

[Garthanos]

Some gestalt / elite heros rules have been posted here let see...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan-...n-gestalt.html

I think one of the most likely things to go wrong.. when playing an adventure meant for more characters .. two pcs ... even one disabled by a monster power effectively resulting in a tpk... the action economy is all toast and you cant get flanking and similar things as easily... 4 choices of at-wills leaves you really weak compared to twice as many at-wills in actual use. <shrug />

[Pyrex]

But with twice as many Encounter & Daily powers their damage output over an encounter very nearly makes up for the action economy; they aren't going to be using AtWill powers all that often.

[Garthanos]

Originally Posted by Pyrex

But with twice as many Encounter & Daily powers their damage output over an encounter very nearly makes up for the action economy; they aren't going to be using AtWill powers all that often.

Forget I said twice as many at-wills ... pretend I said twice as many actions in general being done at any given time and what I meant by disabled included conditions... a failed saving throw or basically any condition is twice as nasty as it was, and its very "swingy" you can probably play it without noticing for a while then smack... one guy is stunned and the other dead. (then of course both are).

It is the same issue as Solos... the PC's are now the solos and need special dispensations ;-),

If they didnt we could get way with just making them higher level hybrids.

[Garthanos]

Did I miss it .. do you read Halivars gestalt rules as you get hit points from both classes? or not?

[Halivar]

I think I neglected to mention, Garthanos. Everyone got the higher of the two.

[Garthanos]

The game gets real swingy when the party has slghtly more than half the hitpoints it used to have... and only has half the number of actions to deliver damage to the enemy with... and though some of those actions are more powerful.. the ability to do those are dependent on two bodies staying functional instead of 5 ... so we are talking an eggshell which can spend the same long term resources it had but can't take anything approaching what it used to nor spend them as fast as it used to .. ( all of its eggs are in half as many baskets...) it sounds umm dangerous and dice dependent. Yup could be fun.. could be a horror story...

It sounds like the commercial adventures would be far more under control using the rules I linked to than yours there are some subtle differences it gives twice the hp so you can actually soak the damage you will take when flanked etc by twice as many as you are used to and allows a basic attack to used as a minor action... I havent tried the rules yet in part because I dont usually use off the shelf adventures.. but I dont have the time I used to have when I was young. ;-), and I would like to.

Elite heros might be a better name than gestalt.. as it can be just one class boosted for half the D&D norm.