Monster A Multitude of Monsters

[Derulbaskul]

I've been enjoying playing around with WotC's monster maker the past few days and thought I would post a compilation of my creations to date in case someone may have some use for them. These are for my Forgotten Realms campaign beginning on Wednesday.

There are a couple of conversions plus my own takes on the beholder and aboleth, in particular.

Feedback is welcomed (including criticism) particularly about the ahuizotl (originally in the Fiend Folio) because I think I may finally have got a lurker just right.

[DanmarLOK]

Red Hand Ogre Flamethrower has a "See the Pitch Cask section" on a couple of entries but that section appears to be missing from the print out?

[Sporemine]

You don't seem to like recharge powers


The aboleth slave gatherer doesn't seem very "leader" to me. The only really "leader" power is invisibility.


The banitepower should probably read:

Shield Wall
When the banite XXXXX is adjacent to at least one other allied banite unit, it cannot be flanked.

"ally with a shield" seems a bit vague.


The elder crushgrip constrictor of set looks like it needs more powers. What it has now are all at wills.


The elder deathrattle viper of set has very few powers as well. It also completely lacks any leader powers (I assume leader was a typo)

[Derulbaskul]

Originally Posted by DanmarLOK

Red Hand Ogre Flamethrower has a "See the Pitch Cask section" on a couple of entries but that section appears to be missing from the print out?

Yes, you're right. It is the adventure notes but I basically borrowed the idea from the first Scales of War adventure. The difference being that fire is required to ignite the pitch (which is where the hobgoblin battlemage comes in with Aganazzar's Scorcher).

[Derulbaskul]

Originally Posted by Sporemine

You don't seem to like recharge powers

By later monsters have more. I'm still learning (which is why I appreciate the feedback- thanks!).

The aboleth slave gatherer doesn't seem very "leader" to me. The only really "leader" power is invisibility.

You're right. I'll be deleting that (or not-I need to look at the aboleth again as I want to recapture the feel of the way I DMed them in 3.5E).

The banitepower should probably read:
Shield Wall
When the banite XXXXX is adjacent to at least one other allied banite unit, it cannot be flanked.
"ally with a shield" seems a bit vague.

OK, I see your point. I'll update that soon.

The elder crushgrip constrictor of set looks like it needs more powers. What it has now are all at wills. The elder deathrattle viper of set has very few powers as well. It also completely lacks any leader powers (I assume leader was a typo)

Agreed. That's still very much a work-in-progress. I wanted to get the basic ideas down while I had access to my Dragon magazines (I live in Singapore, more or less, but all my hardcopies are in my house in Oz).

Thanks for the feedback!

[Sporemine]

Again, good job. You would be good as another creator. I created the thread so I could better learn how to create balance, effective monsters. Mesh Hong is another poster on my thread, he's one of the best to learn from and is very good at helping and feedback.

Good job (on the red hand especially)

Kudos

-Sporemine

[Mesh Hong]

Now I know why I don't get much actual feedback from my own Monster Manuals. There is so much to take in.

I downloaded it as soon as I saw it and will try and add my thoughts here.

I must admit my first thought was that I hated the way the stat blocks were spread out accross the page, somehow it makes them harder to read (well for me anyway).

I will try and post something a bit more constructive later.

[Mesh Hong]

I have never used the official monster creation tools, do you have to be a DDI subscriber to access them?

Aboleth Slave Gatherer
I would be expecting a base of 19 in its stats, you seem to have a lot of 22’s, a creature usually gets a +3 to its primary stat this creature seems to have 4 primary stats.

note: there are a couple of different approaches to creature design, some use the creatures stats to work out there defences, some ignore the stats and use the expected defences as a guide. Over time I have developed an approach that incorporates both.

Dominate
No problems here, I would maybe write the effect in such a way as to point out that the target is no longer dazed but is instead dominated (save ends)

It was at this point (when I checked) that the creature is just a downgraded version of the Aboleth Overseer in the MM1

Phantom Chasm is new, and I think it looks fine.

One point I would make in general is be careful of recharge 6 powers. A creatures life can be very short and a 1 in 6 chance for some reason is very prone to extremes of chance. In my experience they either never recharge (so turn into encounter powers) or by a fluke of chance they come up too often (and are therefore too powerful because when you design a recharge 6 power it is human nature to make it a whopper!). I prefer to use recharge 5,6 powers or encounter powers that recharge at specific times (like when bloodied).

Ahuizotl
I am very confused how the Monster Maker is calculating the creatures Defences. So much so that I don’t know if I can comment on them I get them to be:

HP 64
AC 21 Fortitude 20 Reflex 20 Will 19

I like this creature a lot I think it will work well as a lurker, I don’t think I would use more than 2 in any one encounter though. One thing to bear in mind when running this creature would be that it is a one shot creature, it has one chance to do its thing and if that fails it hasn’t got anything unusual to do. There is nothing wrong with this on a standard creature, in fact it fits with lurkers who will wait until the perfect opportunity before pouncing.

I find Eye Strike a bit confusing as this would imply that the creature is biting a persons face and eyes when it has combat advantage, there is nothing really wrong with it, its just strange to imagine.

Banite Recruit
AC 20 seems incredibly high for a level 1 minion.

I would expect AC 17 Fortitude 14 for this creature.

Otherwise a very standard creature.

Banite Stalwart
Again I would expect AC 18 for this creature,

Banite Sternhelm
Again I would expect AC 20 for this creature. I would also have given this minion an immediate reaction to being missed by a melee attack.

Banite Swordhar
Here we go this is obviously what you have been building up to with your minions.

I would have expected:
AC 22 Fortitude 21 Reflex 15 Will 18
Your stats seem to be getting nearer to what I would expect.

Hold Your Guts In!
A powerful aura but it should work fine. (I have used minions with a similar power and it is amazing how many times they can actually make that save, I had some minions that out lasted equal level brutes)

I’m Coming For You
A level 4 elite would not normally have a double attack, so a recharge 5,6 double attack is a good design decision that makes him more dangerous 1 in 3 turns.

Leg Breaking Kick
This is a good power, I would add 1/round to limit its use.

For the Black Lord
I would be wary of the recharge 6. Also I am not sure about the regain 5 HPs when I would assume he will be surrounded by minions who have 1 HP. If this creature is going to be used with other standard creatures regaining 5 HPs is fairly trivial, I would make it at least 10 HPs.

All other powers
I like them. This guy is a proper leader.

[Derulbaskul]

Sporemine,

Thanks again for the feedback.

Mesh Hong,

Interesting. I will go back and look at the specific numbers you mention.

Thanks, too, for the detailed responses. I will go back and look at them item-by-item but I'm off to my office now to do some work (not too much... just enough to look interested ).

[Derulbaskul]

Originally Posted by Mesh Hong

I have never used the official monster creation tools, do you have to be a DDI subscriber to access them?

Yes. Do you know a subscriber who has a "spare" update. You're allowed 5 updates on your one account (I have the builder on two desktops and a laptop already).

Aboleth Slave GathererI would be expecting a base of 19 in its stats, you seem to have a lot of 22’s, a creature usually gets a +3 to its primary stat this creature seems to have 4 primary stats.

I gave it Str VH, Con H, Dex L, Int VH, Wis VH and Cha H. Key: VH = +6, H = +3 and L = -3. For its defences, I gave it AC H, Fortitude H, Reflex L and Will H. I've dropped the AC and Fortitude back to average based on your feedback (you're right).

note: there are a couple of different approaches to creature design, some use the creatures stats to work out there defences, some ignore the stats and use the expected defences as a guide. Over time I have developed an approach that incorporates both.

I'm sure with some playtesting I will refine my approach. These are very much first cut which is why I am so grateful for the feedback.

Dominate
No problems here, I would maybe write the effect in such a way as to point out that the target is no longer dazed but is instead dominated (save ends)

Good point. I've fixed that.

It was at this point (when I checked) that the creature is just a downgraded version of the Aboleth Overseer in the MM1

My aim with the aboleth, in due course, is to come close to the 3.5E and earlier versions (and lower level). In other words, I will work in a transforming attack at some point based off the way petrification works.

Phantom Chasm is new, and I think it looks fine.

In some ways that's a placeholder while I think about how its illusion powers will work (I'm still addicted, in a sense, to the aboleth of the earlier editions).

One point I would make in general is be careful of recharge 6 powers. (snip some good advice)

Yes, those are some good arguments. I'll go back through the monsters and see which ones should change (although I do like brutes to be really "swingy").

AhuizotlI am very confused how the Monster Maker is calculating the creatures Defences. So much so that I don’t know if I can comment on them I get them to be:

I've attached the base numbers on the other thread but I think you will find that I've selected H or L adjustments as explained above (and generally tried to balance a H with a L unless a solo etc...).

I like this creature a lot I think it will work well as a lurker, I don’t think I would use more than 2 in any one encounter though. One thing to bear in mind when running this creature would be that it is a one shot creature, it has one chance to do its thing and if that fails it hasn’t got anything unusual to do. There is nothing wrong with this on a standard creature, in fact it fits with lurkers who will wait until the perfect opportunity before pouncing.

Actually... that was exactly the way I was thinking it would work. If it succeeds it's a happy camper; if not, it goes back below the water to wait for the next opportunity.

I find Eye Strike a bit confusing as this would imply that the creature is biting a persons face and eyes when it has combat advantage, there is nothing really wrong with it, its just strange to imagine.

I thought about that too. I rather liked the tail being the only attack that could blind but I wanted combat advantage to mean something in that it is a lurker. I should run a few encounters with it. The 3E version could blind with both attacks and I think that's what changed my mind.

Banite Recruit AC 20 seems incredibly high for a level 1 minion.

Its AC is H (so +3). I thought about this but it will be encounter when the party are 3rd- or 4th- level and I like the higher AC to represent the soldier hanging on grimly... and then he is dropped. I'm probably wrong (the simulationist triumphing over the gamist? ).

I would expect AC 17 Fortitude 14 for this creature.

And I think you're right... except I selected H (and L for Reflex, IIRC).

Banite StalwartAgain I would expect AC 18 for this creature,

Ditto.

Banite Sternhelm Again I would expect AC 20 for this creature. I would also have given this minion an immediate reaction to being missed by a melee attack.

Ditto on the AC. Love the immediate reaction! I'll call it, "You're new at this, aren't you?"

Banite Swordhar
Here we go this is obviously what you have been building up to with your minions. (snip) Hold Your Guts In!
A powerful aura but it should work fine. (I have used minions with a similar power and it is amazing how many times they can actually make that save, I had some minions that out lasted equal level brutes)

A swordhar is the equivalent of a sergeant in the pre-Spellplague Zhentarim. I really like the idea of the old sergeant holding the minions together with cries of "Hold your guts in" and "It's only a flesh wound!". I'm really looking forward to seeing it in play.

The officers have such uncouth leader powers.

Leg Breaking Kick
This is a good power, I would add 1/round to limit its use.

Yes, I agree. I only worked out how to include "minor, 1/round" about 15 monsters after this one. As a design decision, I'm beginning to like minor action attacks more and more for solos and even elites. IMO, it's a perfect way to describe a dragon's claw attack.

For the Black LordI would be wary of the recharge 6. Also I am not sure about the regain 5 HPs when I would assume he will be surrounded by minions who have 1 HP. If this creature is going to be used with other standard creatures regaining 5 HPs is fairly trivial, I would make it at least 10 HPs.

Actually, those are really good points. I was tempted to give temporary hit points but they complicate minions unnecessarily. Maybe I'll give out attack and/or damage bonuses instead and let the officers provide the healing.

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide detailed feedback.

[Mesh Hong]

Ok I am going to give you my quick thoughts on some more of your creatures. I don't think I will comment on the AC or NADs or it might drive me insane.

Cranium Rat Swarm
I really like the idea behind this creature.

I would be careful with the Mind Blast power, when using multiple swarms I predict that you will be able to chain-stun at least some of your PCs with it. Couple that with the general nastiness of swarms in the first place and this creature might be a lot more dangerous than it at first appears.

Cult of the Dragon Necromancer
This creature would be better as an elite or at least a Leader, as a standard creature you must realise that you could have 5 of these as a standard encounter.

With the sheer magnitude of damage this guy can put out I would be more inclined to make him an artillery creature rather than a controller, he just doesn't really do any controlling.

The Dracoliches Revealed is a prime example of something that seems cool on paper but can go horribly wrong in practice. 3d10+4 damage of so many types that it is effectively unresistable is just too high for a standard (and non leader) creature, then when you are applying that damage to a 5x5 area it has the potencial to destroy any appropriate level party. Now my guess is that you would only consider using one of these guys in an encounter, but as a standard creature it is at least possible that you could have 5 of them which would be a TPK. Even two would stand a very good chance of killing a few PCs especially if they waited until at least one PC was bloodied before unleashing the power.

At least if you made the creature a leader it would inform people that they could only use one of them, and would allow you access to the higher damage expression attacks.

The Dracoliches Skull power is nice, I think it should probably include a minor action to sustain it.

Duergar Mecenary
I like the variation with Deep Impact but this should probably either be a recharge 4 power or do less damage, 1d8+4 maybe. Otherwise my prediction is that they will pretty much always use it over there vs. AC attack. It is also going to really punish defenders, and a soldier punishing a defender seems a little unusual.

Psychic Weapon again could cause problems when you actually get into combat with these guys. You are going to suddenly realise that you have three of these guys next to a level 6 PC and can unleash 3x 3d8+4 damage on them (with an excellent chance of hitting) that in a worst case scenario is 84 damage, a level 6 PC might have around 55 HPs, if 3 of them have charged him the previous round he might have about 40HPs if he hasn't been healed.

This is a lesson I learned a long time ago, high damage encounter powers are very dangerous on standard creatures. They are even worse on soldiers who have a higher AC and HPs.

Expand again is a great idea for a power. I would probably recommend reducing the creatures AC and attack bonus in its new form though. Remember that this is a soldier who are meant to have high AC and HPs but low damage. This power turns him into high AC, high HPs and high damage. I would give him a -4 to AC and a -2 to hit, the easiest way would be to split some of his attacks between cannot use while bloodied, and only while bloodied so you can change the attack and damage bonuses in a way that will make the creature easier to run.

I hope these comments are useful, I am trying to explain my criticisms in a constructive way, of course you are free to disagree.

Anyway only 26 more creatures to go.

[Derulbaskul]

Mesh Hong,

I can't thank you enough. I believe your comments are spot on.

I've actually made about 50 or so monsters. I think I will review them first in line with your general advice (and well noted about the defences etc...) before I post them.

Thanks again.

[Mesh Hong]

I am always happy to lend my opinion and experience to assist with monster design.

I'm glad I could help.