4e Fan Creations and House RulesWorking on variant powers? Statting up a PC race or your version of a monster? Creating or converting an adventure? Put it here!
"Fixing" Damage Boosting Items / Armbands of Power, Bloodclaw etc.
A lot of people see this items as "too good" or "too important".
Banning is the easy fix. I prefer complicated approaches, so here is mine:
The damage bonus granted by such items cannot exceed +1 point per tier.
So, a +4 Radiant Weapon or Staff of Ruin adds +2 to damage (Paragon Tier).
The Armbands of Iron Power (or what they are called) or Bracers of Perfect Shot add +1 instead of +2 at Heroic Tier, +2 at Paragon Tier, and +3 at Epic Tier.
For weapons one could compensate a little with a higher critical damage die, if there is still one higher available.
I think this restriction might not be necessary for bonuses that only apply to basic attacks. Using a basic attack is typically a suboptimal solution anyway, and you will always end up using non-basic attacks. (Even if you have some at-will powers that count as basic attacks.)
The Bloodclaw weapon is slightly differently: Use this power before making a melee attack on your turn. You take 1 point of damage (2 points at paragon tier, 3 points at epic tier) . This damage cannot be reduced or prevented in any way. If you hit, increase the damage your target takes by 2 points (4 points at paragon tier, 6 points at epic tier) or 4 points (6 points at paragon tier, 8 points at epic tier) with a two-handed weapon.
An additional "fix" might be to ensure that all these bonuses are declared item bonuses. So you can pick how you get your bonus, if you feel you must have it, but there is no stacking and you still have some slots free for other options.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
Last edited by Mustrum_Ridcully; 7th September 2009 at 11:29 AM..
The Bloodclaw weapon is slightly differently: Use this power before making a melee attack on your turn. You take 1 point of damage (2 points at paragon tier, 3 points at epic tier) . This damage cannot be reduced or prevented in any way. If you hit, increase the damage your target takes by 2 points (4 points at paragon tier, 6 points at epic tier) or 4 points (6 points at paragon tier, 8 points at epic tier) with a two-handed weapon.
This does not fix the problem where:
: I own BloodClaw weapon A
: Activate BloodClaw on weapon A
: Quickdraw another powerful weapon B
: Attack with weapon B
This fix would be to change it to:
Use this power before making a melee attack with this weapon on your turn.
You just buffed +1 Bloodclaw for 2H users. I suspect not intentionally?
So lately I've come to an odd mixed feeling on these items. I hate that they're ubiquitous, effectively required, far better than all other options.
On the other hand, I like the game playing faster.
No, not intentional, but I think not necessarily problematic either. Maybe Blood Claw weapons now become "mandated" at the first 5 levels or so...
If you like faster gameplay, how about giving everyone a free Weapon/Implement Focus/Expertise?
As you say, your issue is that they feel "required" to you, but they give a positive benefit. Just give the benefit for free and give players back their options to choose style over substance.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
This does not fix the problem where:
: I own BloodClaw weapon A
: Activate BloodClaw on weapon A
: Quickdraw another powerful weapon B
: Attack with weapon B
This fix would be to change it to:
Use this power before making a melee attack with this weapon on your turn.
See, that's what happen if you ignore the character optimizations board and miss the real cheese. I think that abuse is "theoretical" - should it happen, the solution is Core Rulebook to the head. I might even get Pathfinder for that purpose.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
This does not fix the problem where:
: I own BloodClaw weapon A
: Activate BloodClaw on weapon A
: Quickdraw another powerful weapon B
: Attack with weapon B
This fix would be to change it to:
Use this power before making a melee attack with this weapon on your turn.
It also doesn't fix the problem where a ranger says
I activate my +6 bloodclaw weapon
I activate my +6 reckless weapon
I wear by +6 iron armbands
I get the +30 bonus to damage on my next attack
Rinse, repeat
I would consider basically nerfing all three items, or perhaps removing them altogether. I made a high level priest once and focused on a set of feats and powers that synergized to give him high damage for most of the fight, then my little sister made a barbarian with a bloodclaw weapon that got an even higher damage bonus all the time.
Would there be any problem with turning the bonus from bloodclaw and reckless into an item bonus in addition to nerfing them? I say "of course not".
It also doesn't fix the problem where a ranger says
I activate my +6 bloodclaw weapon
I activate my +6 reckless weapon
I wear by +6 iron armbands
I get the +30 bonus to damage on my next attack
Rinse, repeat
I would consider basically nerfing all three items, or perhaps removing them altogether. I made a high level priest once and focused on a set of feats and powers that synergized to give him high damage for most of the fight, then my little sister made a barbarian with a bloodclaw weapon that got an even higher damage bonus all the time.
Would there be any problem with turning the bonus from bloodclaw and reckless into an item bonus in addition to nerfing them? I say "of course not".
Oooo sounds cool. I don't know if 30 extra points of damage is all that broken at 30th level. Hell it'd probably make the combat end in a reasonable length of time
__________________ "Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson 18th century English author.
I'm personally fond of the bloodclaw spiked gauntlet, which you can wear while still wielding a two-handed weapon.
__________________ Ryan "RangerWickett" Nock
Author of the War of the Burning Sky serialized novel, free at EN World. Part Two, The Irons Have Tolled, now available.
If you like faster gameplay, how about giving everyone a free Weapon/Implement Focus/Expertise?
As you say, your issue is that they feel "required" to you, but they give a positive benefit. Just give the benefit for free and give players back their options to choose style over substance.
For the game I'm running, I gave out better than free expertise _and_ reduced the hp of mobs by 20%, while quietly ensuring they didn't get those options.
For games I'm playing in... I'm just going to use Reckless or Bloodclaw or whatever. And Iron Armbands for all. And shards. And dual-wielding staff of ruin. All the stupid.
I would not try, and would advise against the DM allowing, stacking of their benefits by activating one then using another, via spiked gauntlet or otherwise. Isn't there a rule from AV or FAQ that gets around that (something about 'with the weapon wielded' or some drivel). Meh, whatever.
For games I'm playing in... I'm just going to use Reckless or Bloodclaw or whatever. And Iron Armbands for all. And shards. And dual-wielding staff of ruin. All the stupid.
And some classes will have a lot of fun, while others will get left in the dust. Which is the real problem.
so much for magic items not being a big deal, right?
Personally, I think you're better off just removing them. Even at +1/+2/+3 instead, armbands are still better than other options, and still more boring.
And every single damage increaser makes multiple attacks more powerful than single larger attacks, creating extreme silliness like twin strike being better than high level dailies.
so much for magic items not being a big deal, right?
Personally, I think you're better off just removing them. Even at +1/+2/+3 instead, armbands are still better than other options, and still more boring.
And every single damage increaser makes multiple attacks more powerful than single larger attacks, creating extreme silliness like twin strike being better than high level dailies.
Yeah, this is what I was afraid of. I'm considering nerfing the armbands, but I can't find the balance between making them useless and OP. I don't think it exists. Ditto to bloodclaw, ruin, rackless. I guess its time to do what DDI doesn't have the balls for and actually fix this with a ban.
I have a dual wielding staff of ruin wizard, a bracers of perfect shot ranger and an iron armband dwarf battlerager (who does a minimum of 20 something on his at will power) and these 3 PCs far outdamage the other 3 in the group.
WotC if you are listening, a fix would be nice.
Edit: Vicious weapons/implements are pretty high on my list too. Not sure of your experiences with that.
I have a dual wielding staff of ruin wizard, a bracers of perfect shot ranger and an iron armband dwarf battlerager (who does a minimum of 20 something on his at will power) and these 3 PCs far outdamage the other 3 in the group.
I assume the wizard also has Dual Implement Spellcaster and the battlerager is also a pit fighter? Given the fairly large number of ways to get damage bonuses in 4e, I wonder whether WotC under-values damage, or whether we are actually over-valuing it.
Quote:
Edit: Vicious weapons/implements are pretty high on my list too. Not sure of your experiences with that.
Since the high damage only triggers on a critical, it's a little too unreliable for me. I'd rather have a small but consistent increase in damage than deal a whole lot of extra damage occasionally.
Maybe an effective ruling would be that any damage bonus from an item other than enhancement bonuses be counted as an item bonus. Then we ban bloodclaw/iron armbands/reckless. I like.
It also doesn't fix the problem where a ranger says
I activate my +6 bloodclaw weapon
I activate my +6 reckless weapon
I wear by +6 iron armbands
I get the +30 bonus to damage on my next attack
Rinse, repeat
I would consider basically nerfing all three items, or perhaps removing them altogether. I made a high level priest once and focused on a set of feats and powers that synergized to give him high damage for most of the fight, then my little sister made a barbarian with a bloodclaw weapon that got an even higher damage bonus all the time.
Would there be any problem with turning the bonus from bloodclaw and reckless into an item bonus in addition to nerfing them? I say "of course not".
Actually, it does fix it to some extent, depending on what of my suggestions you take. The damage bonus limitation would reduce the damage bonus to
around +14. If all the bonuses also turn into item bonuses, it would be +8.
Still significant, but only 1 of the 3 mentioned item would be "needed".
EDIT: Ah, I see that you mention that in the last post.
I think I would also reduce the maximum bonus granted by Bloodclaw in some way, and if every damage bonus turns into an item bonus, you avoid the ridiculous stacking.
Thoughts of the Arch Chancellor - My weblog on EN World - containing game related material, like: house rules, design theories, reviews, play reports, adventure ideas
Secret Member of <Think we would just hide our secret with a spoiler tag, eh?>
Hey.. if you had 2x +2 staff of ruin, casting with MH would they contribute (with 2is) 2(base)+2(staff1 proerty)+2(staff2 property)+2(2is) (8)?
Thats amazing (it does not happen that way in CB?)
Actually, now that you mention it, the item bonus to damage from the property should not stack, and the enhancement bonus should only stack if the character has the Dual Implement Spellcaster feat. Hence, for two +2 staffs of ruin, the character should get a +4 bonus to damage, or +6 if he has Dual Implement Spellcaster.
Linear Mode
And yet another word from our sponsors
