Rules My house-rules for a grittier game.

[Kzach]

This is just a compilation of rules I like to use in my home games. They have been refined and redone through discussing them with many people here, so I thought it only fair to provide a copy of these rules to everyone who has helped me nut them out.

Feel free to bag them, tear them apart, praise my genius or whatever. They're what they are and they're here for you to use or ignore as you see fit.

http://kzach.wdfiles.com/local--file...y/truegrit.pdf

[Alex319]

I'm not really sure how these rules make the game "grittier," but here goes my comments:

1. I'm a little confused about how the magic item bonuses work and character bonuses work. My understanding is that it's the following:

1a. Magic items no longer have different level versions of them with different enhancement bonuses. Instead a given magic item just has one version - so instead of "+3 bloodclaw greatsword" you would just have "bloodclaw greatsword" for example. Then the amount of "plus" for the purpose of computing weapon power or property effects (like in the bloodclaw example, the number of points of damage you can self-inflict) is based on the highest level version of them whose level is less than the character level. However you don't get the enhancement bonus or critical bonus. Instead...

1b. You get a "masterwork" bonus of +1 per tier.

1c. You get a special bonus of +1 per 5 levels.

Note that this means you're ahead of the normal power curve. The normal power curve gives +6 over the whole 30 levels from magic items, but you've replaced that with +3 from masterwork bonuses and +6 character bonus, for a total of +9.

Also, how much do magical items with multiple leveled versions cost? Masterwork is just 5x normal, but how much is, for example, a bloodclaw greatsword? Is it just 5x normal? Is it the cost of the lowest leveled version? Is it calculated some other way?

2. I'm confused about how Hero Points work. This confusion seems to stem in part from how you say that Hero Points "replace milestones", but Hero Points are something you spend while milestones aren't something you spend, they're something that happens to you. Let me try to explain what I think you're saying:

2a. You don't keep track of milestones, action points, magic item dailies, or healing surges.
2b. Instead, you keep track of a "hero point" total. Your maximum hero points equals your maximum number of healing surges.
2c. You spend a Hero Point whenever you would spend an action point, healing surge, or magic item daily.
2d. The only ways to regain Hero Points are either (a) taking an extended rest or (b) eating the "hero point rejuvenation food."

If this is what you're saying, here are my comments:

1. You might need to make some sort of special case rulings for other things that are based on milestones, like the Artificer's arcane infusion power, that armor that increases its defense bonus based on number of milestones reached, or the "death penalty" after you are raised.

2. Power-wise, it's close to a wash. Players do get more action points (since they can use one every encounter) but that's balanced by having more things come out of the same pool so they are more likely to run out. However...

3. If you're going "by the book" in terms of treasure, it seems like players will almost always be able to afford plenty of hero point rejuvenation food so they will rarely have to worry about running out, and it will effectively be unlimited hero points. But another interesting idea comes to mind - maybe you could make it so you don't recover all your hero points after an extended rest - maybe you only recover one or two, or maybe none at all - so the "hero point rejuvenation food" is the primary way players regain hero points. Then if you limit the amount of hero point rejuvenation food players can get (either by making it expensive or otherwise hard to obtain) you give them another limited resource that they can't easily get back, and thus another possible plot point or incentive to find nonviolent solutions.

[Kzach]

Originally Posted by Alex319

I'm not really sure how these rules make the game "grittier," but here goes my comments:

Blurgleburphmurrgpffftzip.

[Aexalon]

Originally Posted by Alex319

Note that this means you're ahead of the normal power curve. The normal power curve gives +6 over the whole 30 levels from magic items, but you've replaced that with +3 from masterwork bonuses and +6 character bonus, for a total of +9.

I think it's safe to presume that Kzach also outlawed the expertise feats. Though he should declare so in his house rules document, for clarity (if this is the case. otherwise, Alex319's evaluation is correct).

[Stalker0]

Does regular masterwork armor still exist in the game? It felt like it did, but if not I would include some bonuses for that in your magic item adjustment.

If you want grittier, consider making the crit bonuses +1d8 instead of +1d6, to give it a bit more punch.

Lastly, with your system, I don't see a reason for different classes to have different surge values anymore. It doesn't seem right that a fighter can have 12 surges and a wizard 6 which they are now used for magic items and action points. Otherwise, I think combining everything into one resource is a fine idea.

[Kzach]

Originally Posted by Aexalon

I think it's safe to presume that Kzach also outlawed the expertise feats. Though he should declare so in his house rules document, for clarity (if this is the case. otherwise, Alex319's evaluation is correct).

I still have them in the system.

The masterwork bonuses are there to balance the system. The expertise feats are there to provide a bonus. I don't believe in having feat penalties to rebalance a system. If you get a feat to give you a bonus, then it should be a bonus. You should not be required to get a feat simply to rebalance your character.

Originally Posted by Stalker0

Does regular masterwork armor still exist in the game? It felt like it did, but if not I would include some bonuses for that in your magic item adjustment.

It does.

Originally Posted by Stalker0

If you want grittier, consider making the crit bonuses +1d8 instead of +1d6, to give it a bit more punch.

*shrug* do whatever the hell you want in your game.

Originally Posted by Stalker0

Lastly, with your system, I don't see a reason for different classes to have different surge values anymore. It doesn't seem right that a fighter can have 12 surges and a wizard 6 which they are now used for magic items and action points. Otherwise, I think combining everything into one resource is a fine idea.

Classes with more healing surges are given them because they generally spend them much more often out of necessity. How does this change just because of this conversion?

Oh wait, it doesn't.

[Nytmare]

Originally Posted by Kzach

Classes with more healing surges are given them because they generally spend them much more often out of necessity. How does this change just because of this conversion?

Oh wait, it doesn't.

Oh wait, it does!

Characters aren't losing a percentage of their surges to action points and magic item uses, they're all roughly losing the same flat amount. That makes life for someone with 6 surges significantly grittier than someone with a dozen, no?

I'd imagine a system like this would lead to hero-point light characters rarely spending them on extra actions or item effects. Not necessarily a "bad" thing if that's what you're aiming for, but it's there.

[Kzach]

Originally Posted by Nytmare

Oh wait, it does!

Which is balanced by...

...wait, why am I bothering? I only posted this as a courtesy since the regulars on this forum helped me come up with most of the rules and refine them, I don't give a crap if you like them, agree with them, or hate them.

I feel much better now.

[Stalker0]

Originally Posted by Kzach

Feel free to bag them, tear them apart, praise my genius or whatever.

You left the door open for people to make comments, don't be upset when they do.

[Kzach]

Originally Posted by Stalker0

You left the door open for people to make comments, don't be upset when they do.

You're right. It was the expectation of answers that annoyed me. I'm not here to review or explain the decisions behind the rules, so don't expect me to justify them or explain anything.

[Rel]

Since you don't really want to address questions or comments, Kzach, I'll go ahead and close the thread.