Monster Feedback on BBEG

[Quickleaf]

So, with awesome help from Mesh Hong I put together my first draft of Prince Ardanus, the scheming BBEG of my heroic tier campaign. Mesh Hong's original is in this thread: Give me the idea, I build the monster I'm not 100% satisfied with it, but I think I'm moving in the right direction with Mesh Hong's initial design. For example, I took out his cool monologue power, but I'm not sure if I should have.

Kindly look over the proposed monster and give it your critique. Thanks!

Btw, he is meant to be confronted as a level 10 elite when the PCs reach 5th level. At the campaign's climax he'll be confronted again as a level 15 elite for the 10th level PCs. Most of the time the PCs are dealing with his cronies, conspirators, gathering evidence against him, mobilizing key nobles to rebel, etc. He's meant to be a challenging and interesting opponent, not an invincible solo.

[Blackbrrd]

Maybe you should put the stuff that happens both on a hit and a miss in the effect part?

Not being able to receive healing looks or temp hp seems too powerful to me. That, together with his good to hit and damage will probably kill one or more characters.

[Quickleaf]

Originally Posted by Blackbrrd

Maybe you should put the stuff that happens both on a hit and a miss in the effect part?

Yep, thanks for catching that!

Not being able to receive healing looks or temp hp seems too powerful to me. That, together with his good to hit and damage will probably kill one or more characters.

I'm thinking of changing it to just unable to use healing surges. Do you think that's still too powerful? I could scale it back even more and make it no second wind or no temporary hit points, but I think that takes too much of its edge off. Maybe a good thing?

[Quickleaf]

Any other comments just about its power level in general as an elite that will be 5 levels above the PCs when encountered?

[Mesh Hong]

A couple of quick thoughts:

1: Pin and Mock might be a bit too powerfull (or annoying) for a level 10 elite. The power was originally written for a level 14 elite. I would suggest removing either the dazed or weakened from the aftereffect (I would personally remove the dazed - because the PC is already prone which means he would spend the entirety of his second turn just standing up which means he has had 2 turns of effectively doing nothing).

2: A very basic point, have you checked his defences against your PCs attack values? At level +5 he might be very hard for your players to hit, especially while using Come to My Aid which might increase his AC by 4. Of course he also has his Aura of Loyalty for the PCs to cope with, which all adds up to a very good defence.

This leads me on to the fact that he is intended to survive the encounter, I hope you have several ideas for how he will be able to pull that off without seeming too forced. What are you going to do if the PCs suddenly pull of 3 big crits in a row and he is unable to escape? (I have had this happen to me a couple of times and while I don't mind it, it might put a really big spanner in the works of your plot!).

3: If you want to tone down Princes Mockery you could change it to "Mocked enemies cannot gain Temporary HPs and when they gain HPs they only recieve half the total amount" .

[Quickleaf]

Hey Mesh Hong, thanks for your followup thoughts.

I'm making changes to the Prince right now, so these are really helpful. Good catch on the 2 turns out from Pin and Mock. I imagine he will be hard to hit, as in 15+ with a basic attack, but I'll need to check his defenses against actual PC attack values (PCs are 3rd level now), but they'll also get a big boost at 5th level with 6th level parcels handed out early so everyone will have level 6 to level 8 armor and weapon/implement. Also, I'm goin gto have a milestone and a bit of magic for the PCs to regain their dailies before the battle royale.

The set up for the final fight is the House of Lords where the PCs are basically dropping in to break up the meeting and reveal the Prince's treachery just as he is making a bid for the crown before the gathered assembly. I'm going for an over the top duel, replete with falling chandelier with a rope leading up to the second floor gallery, a table of documents PCs can slide enemies across, fleeing nobles/cheering audience, etc.

If they manage to defeat the Prince and have enough evidence they can get him put under house arrest and he'll be the underdog for the next few levels of the campaign rather than the PCs. There are a few reasons the PCs won't want to kill him (probably): 1-Killing a member of the royal family has major fallout, including your own death, burning of your lands, and imprisonment of your family (unless you get a king's or pontiff's pardon). 2-Given their past merciful approach (they impressed a villain into joining a monastery rather than kill him), I'm thinking they'll be merciful. 3-The Prince has important information about the lost First Crown of Galeay, an artifact that the King would like to see restored.

That said, if they somehow manage to defeat him and a PC decides to kill him, then he's dead and the campaign takes a 180 or 720 as the case may be.

[Mesh Hong]

Originally Posted by Quickleaf

The set up for the final fight is the House of Lords where the PCs are basically dropping in to break up the meeting and reveal the Prince's treachery just as he is making a bid for the crown before the gathered assembly. I'm going for an over the top duel, replete with falling chandelier with a rope leading up to the second floor gallery, a table of documents PCs can slide enemies across, fleeing nobles/cheering audience, etc.

Sounds cool. I recently ran an encounter (this was the first of a string of 7 difficult encounters without an extended rest) that was set at a royal ball, where the PCs were planning to assassinate the Queen of the Empire. (they knew she was a follower of Orcus, but had no tangable proof that they could go public with, but had spent a long time fostering support from certain individuals).

The encounter included:-
Good Guys
The 6 PCs (level 19)
11 NPC (given to the players to run for the encounter)
- Baron Varn Wrandal (level 20 elite soldier)
- Count Ardwick Neville (level 9 elite controller)
- Sir Daniel Neville (level 15 elite skirmisher)
- Lord Wolfguard Quelton (level 8 elite controller)
- Sir Vincenzo Quelton (level 14 elite lurker)
- Lord Peter Rhonstein (level 14 elite brute)
- Sir Lumin Rhonstein (level 16 elite artillery)
- Sir Robert Faxbury (level 14 elite artillery)
- Lord Walter Hamaheim (level 9 elite brute)
- Sir Francis Hamaheim (level 6 elite lurker)
- Sir Julian Hamaheim (level 16 elite skirmisher)
180x Minor Nobility (all individually represented, no attack, minion)

Bad Guys
Orcus Flesh Harvester (level 19 solo brute)
60x Blood Warrior of Orcus (level 16 minion)
10x Blood Acolyte of Orcus (level 18 minion)
4x Blood Champion of Orcus (level 18 soldier)

The encounter was brilliant, even though it took about 5 hours to run (there were 271 individual creatures on the battle map!). The PCs and NPCs had to try to protect the minor nobility while battling the forces trying to sacrifice them to Orcus. The Queen, of course, escaped while they were fighting and the next 6 encounters involved the PCs chasing her down and fighting their way through the Castle, facing off against the Clover Guard (the Queens personal bodyguard, including 2 very capable adversaries) and a final confrontation with the Queen and the ex-king, who was now a Lich.

My over the top (and complicated) campaign being what it is, the final confrontation also saw guest appearances from Corellon, Melora, Sehannine, and Avandra arguing and posturing with the Raven Queen over the control of fate and the parts the PCs have to play in future events. (or as we like to call it, The God War).

[Quickleaf]

Originally Posted by Mesh Hong

Sounds cool. I recently ran an encounter (this was the first of a string of 7 difficult encounters without an extended rest) that was set at a royal ball, where the PCs were planning to assassinate the Queen of the Empire. <snip>
The encounter was brilliant, even though it took about 5 hours to run (there were 271 individual creatures on the battle map!).

Wow, sounds awesome! Your players are lucky. 271 miniatures boggles the mind. Were they mostly prepained plastics?

And here's my revised take on the Prince, lots of little changes but nothing major...It's tough making a BBEG cause there's so many powers I'd like to give him but no opportunity to playtest them.

[Mesh Hong]

Originally Posted by Quickleaf

Wow, sounds awesome! Your players are lucky. 271 miniatures boggles the mind. Were they mostly prepained plastics?

Not quite that lucky! The Minor Nobles were cut out squares of cardboard of a size small enough to be able to place two in the same square.

Originally Posted by Quickleaf

And here's my revised take on the Prince, lots of little changes but nothing major...It's tough making a BBEG cause there's so many powers I'd like to give him but no opportunity to playtest them.

Looks good.

Pin and Mock is starting to look like a recharge power to me.

[Quickleaf]

Originally Posted by Mesh Hong

Not quite that lucky! The Minor Nobles were cut out squares of cardboard of a size small enough to be able to place two in the same square.

Still, over half the game board must have been filled with nobles! That sounds like an epic encounter, it must have been hard to top, though the showdown with the queen and lich must have been pretty sweet. Did that end your campaign?

Pin and Mock is starting to look like a recharge power to me.

Yeah you're right, but I hate recharge rolls since it's just one more thing to check for, especially with tons of conditions floating around. That's why I usually go for recharge (first bloodied).

[Mesh Hong]

Originally Posted by Quickleaf

Still, over half the game board must have been filled with nobles! That sounds like an epic encounter, it must have been hard to top, though the showdown with the queen and lich must have been pretty sweet. Did that end your campaign?

Overall the run of battles leading to the Queen was the climax of quite a few sessions of intrigue (i.e. no combat) and was the end of the Vikensburg chapter of the campaign.

It got the PCs to level 20, just one level away from epic and should have given them all the final justifications for their epic destinies. Though I have been working on those for at least 2 levels now so that I could weave them into the plot or at least make them seem like natural progressions.

This was also the first time the PCs have had a chance to really change the shape of the world and make a lasting impression as hero's which is what they should be doing by the end of Paragon Tier play.

I can't really discuss exactly where they are heading plot wise as my players read these boards from time to time. But they all know that the agreement binding the Gods is breaking down (which they are playing their part in), heading towards what is being foreshadowed as a God War.