(Judge) Judges gather here, please...

[GnomeWorks]

Howdy.

I think we've grown a tad disorganized... we need to fix this. In order for LEW to grow, we have to get a good core group of judges together, and we need to have a plan of action.

Or something.

For starters, I think we need to get everybody who's a Judge posted here, so we can figure out who's still around and available for judging.

Once we do that, I think we should figure out what duties the judges still here have, and then find more judges if necessary.

Then we should figure out what needs to be done, assign judges to those actions, and do them.

[Manzanita]

Hey, sounds good. Thanks for moving things along, GW. I'm a judge, but I generally excuse myself from rule modification threads (such as new PrCs), as I'm generally uncomfortable with them and don't just want to vote 'No' all the time.

I think approving pending dieties, and getting something down for the map should be top priorities. There are plenty of other proposal threads out there we could work our way through too.

[Pbartender]

Yeah, I'm still here.

[nimisgod]

As am I.

[Knight Otu]

*waves*

I'm around.

As for things we need to do, I agree with getting a few more judges.

Once we're done with the bulk of the current proposals, there's a few things we might want to do:
Map.
A campaign document, including a basic lay of the land as well as the new mechanics.
A cosmology. I don't think we should use the great wheel as is.
Try to get a subforum or two.
Figure out character retirement for a new character, along with the non-standard races issue.
There's propably more that I forgot.

Oh, and while we're on the judge subject, I don't think I have access to the judge account.

[GnomeWorks]

Originally Posted by Manzanita

Thanks for moving things along, GW.

No problem. I like LEW, and I've been involved since the beginning - I want it to continue to grow as much as anybody else.

I'm a judge, but I generally excuse myself from rule modification threads (such as new PrCs), as I'm generally uncomfortable with them and don't just want to vote 'No' all the time.

That shouldn't be a problem. We have enough judges that it shouldn't be an issue if one or two of us isn't comfortable judging proposals.

I think approving pending dieties, and getting something down for the map should be top priorities. There are plenty of other proposal threads out there we could work our way through too.

I agree. The non-deity proposals are nice, but we should focus on those for now.

The map is also important. It seems like we have a few different ones floating around (there's the rough Scorpio did, and there's the close-up of the region around Orussus, but I think that's about it).

Originally Posted by Knight Otu

A campaign document, including a basic lay of the land as well as the new mechanics.

I think that the map will be good for the lay of the land idea. However, having a single source for location descriptions and the various main cities wouldn't be a bad idea, either.

A cosmology. I don't think we should use the great wheel as is.

I concur. However, most of the deities thus far have been statted out using the great wheel, and it's also the most familiar cosmology. Some modifications wouldn't hurt, though, and would help lend flavor.

I think that making the cosmology after we have all the deities we need would be a good idea - that way we can make a cosmology that fits the deities, rather than the other way around (since we went with deities first, as opposed to planes).

Try to get a subforum or two.

Hrm... I don't think this is that big a deal. While it would be helpful, I don't know if this is imperative. For now, I think we're fine... if we continue growing, though, it may become necessary.

Figure out character retirement for a new character, along with the non-standard races issue.

Character retirement would be a good one, though we have a base idea to work with right now.

Non-standard races have been discussed, but I don't recall any rule being set into place. We'll need to figure that one out.

Also, I think we need to work out character death and what happens when that occurs. We should figure out guidelines regarding raising and resurrection, deity intervention, creation of a new character after one dies (for example, does it follow the same rules as character retirement, or different ones?), and so on.

Oh, and while we're on the judge subject, I don't think I have access to the judge account.

The password is floating around somewhere...

On the same topic, we may want to consider asking if we can make the judges moderaters for the forum. It'll certainly make pruning a lot easier, and we can update things that were posted by earlier judges that have since disappeared.

So, it sounds like our current plan of action is

• Finish approving/disapproving deity proposals.
• Get a map done.
• Get a campaign compendium done.

I think that's enough to work with for now. Once we get those done, we should move on to the next items.

[nimisgod]

Knight Otu, I've sent you an email with the password for the Judges' account. Who else amongst the judges doesn't have it? Just email me and I'll send it to you.

Also, Knight Otu, in this thread, I suggest you bring out the bunch of random ideas you emailed to all the judges before. I still have it if you want me to post it here.

However, most of the deities thus far have been statted out using the great wheel, and it's also the most familiar cosmology. Some modifications wouldn't hurt, though, and would help lend flavor.

We don't have to use the great wheel . The gawds could dwell in their own demi-plane when not in Enworld. But then again, it is a lot of work.

GW, what do you mean "Campaign Compendium"?

[GnomeWorks]

Originally Posted by nimisgod

Knight Otu, I've sent you an email with the password for the Judges' account. Who else amongst the judges doesn't have it? Just email me and I'll send it to you.

My email is korey at nandgate dot com.

Also, Knight Otu, in this thread, I suggest you bring out the bunch of random ideas you emailed to all the judges before. I still have it if you want me to post it here.

Hmm... I didn't get this email. I'm interested in hearing these ideas.

We don't have to use the great wheel . The gawds could dwell in their own demi-plane when not in Enworld. But then again, it is a lot of work.

Like I said above, if we create our own cosmology, I think we should make the outer planes fit the deities in the LEW pantheon. For example, some deities have homes listed on the specific plane; maybe those places could become outer planes themselves.

I'd also strongly suggest that we keep the standard transitive and inner planes. LEW seems to be tied to the inner planes via the towers, and messing with the transitives is just a bad idea, IMO.

GW, what do you mean "Campaign Compendium"?

Originally Posted by Knight Otu

A campaign document, including a basic lay of the land as well as the new mechanics.

That's what I meant... don't know why I replaced "document" with "compendium," though. Essentially just a list of the various cities that have been approved, a mention of all the cities/places in all the characters' backgrounds, and the various mechanics we've introduced (new domains, new skills, PrCs, etc).

[Manzanita]

I've lost track of the password as well.

[Knight Otu]

Originally Posted by nimisgod

Knight Otu, I've sent you an email with the password for the Judges' account.

Thanks, received it.

Originally Posted by nimisgod

Also, Knight Otu, in this thread, I suggest you bring out the bunch of random ideas you emailed to all the judges before. I still have it if you want me to post it here.

Sure, can do that:

I've tossed a few ideas around in my head. Some are propably stupid, but maybe we can use a few.

1) Any use for a judges only forum? (this ties in with the other subforums we would want ) Would likely require an User Group, accessible by invitation (by Creamsteak, and maybe one or two other judges when he's unavailable).

2) A judges request thread - some adventures have gone a long way without judges. This might help in getting judges. Should possibly be restricted to one post per DM. Could be merged with the Tracking thread

3) An Absence thread - Similar idea as above, if you're going to be absent, post about it here, or edit your existing post. Might help with who's around and who's not. Again, should possibly restricted to one post per poster; Might be crowding the top too much. <This one's pretty much obsolete now, since Brother Shatterstone started one in Talking the Talk>

4) Assuming she survives the final battle of Bluerun, Sparky's character Rainca will likely be travelling with the "whoresons", a group of bandits-want-to-turn-mercenaries. This could become a loose group of ongoing adventures in a single thread. There might be some things about that we would want to consider with such threads, such as when to apply time XP, who can join or leave at any time (interfaces?). <well, she did survive...>

5) ... <Doesn't really enter the equation>

6) Character jobs; Something I've cooked up, but want to run by the other judges first:
A) Money - Should be given out per real-world month while not adventuring. The amount should IMHO be based on two weeks worth of work.
B) XP - I'm not 100% on this, but I think a reduced rate for characters on a job would OK - say 25 XP per month.
A potential wording template and example:
NAME
Description
Requirements:
gp/Month:
Special:

CRAFTSMAN
You are a craftsman, making a living on creating and selling items.
Requirements: At least 2 Craft skills at 4 ranks. At least one of these Craft skills must be at maximum ranks.
gp/Month: 10 plus the highest Craft skill modifier you have (ranks in Craft + Int modifier + other permanent bonuses).
Special: You can craft, buy and sell items in a seperate thread while not adventuring. You must possess artisan tools. If you do not have one yet, you must set aside at least 1/4 of your income for a workshop, which costs 500 gp to buy.

[GnomeWorks]

Originally Posted by Knight Otu

1) Any use for a judges only forum? (this ties in with the other subforums we would want ) Would likely require an User Group, accessible by invitation (by Creamsteak, and maybe one or two other judges when he's unavailable).

This could possibly be a useful idea. I don't think we judges are doing anything we want to hide from the rest of LEW just yet, so I don't see a real need for this. While it could be useful to have a place to congregate, a (judge) thread works just fine, IMO.

2) A judges request thread - some adventures have gone a long way without judges. This might help in getting judges. Should possibly be restricted to one post per DM. Could be merged with the Tracking thread

Definitely a good idea.

3) An Absence thread - Similar idea as above, if you're going to be absent, post about it here, or edit your existing post. Might help with who's around and who's not. Again, should possibly restricted to one post per poster; Might be crowding the top too much. <This one's pretty much obsolete now, since Brother Shatterstone started one in Talking the Talk>

As you mentioned, this is made obsolete by BS's thread in TtT. However, mentioning that thread somewhere in the guide to LEW wouldn't be a bad idea.

4) Assuming she survives the final battle of Bluerun, Sparky's character Rainca will likely be travelling with the "whoresons", a group of bandits-want-to-turn-mercenaries. This could become a loose group of ongoing adventures in a single thread. There might be some things about that we would want to consider with such threads, such as when to apply time XP, who can join or leave at any time (interfaces?). <well, she did survive...>

Maybe at the beginning of such a thread, mention that the interfaces will be indicated as such when they show up, and when an interface show up, award XP to all those who were participating thus far?

6) Character jobs; Something I've cooked up, but want to run by the other judges first:
A) Money - Should be given out per real-world month while not adventuring. The amount should IMHO be based on two weeks worth of work.
B) XP - I'm not 100% on this, but I think a reduced rate for characters on a job would OK - say 25 XP per month.
A potential wording template and example:
NAME
Description
Requirements:
gp/Month:
Special:

You have to make this worth a character's time. Reducing the XP gained per month is fine, but this should be a somewhat viable option, if we want to put some emphasis on it.

My recommendation would be - permanent bonuses to the main skill used by the job. This wouldn't need to be a big bonus, but just something palpable... working all the time on a job would definitely make you better at it, even if you're not adventuring (ie, not putting ranks into it). Maybe a +1 bonus to the skill every month worked?

[nimisgod]

Originally Posted by Manzanita

I've lost track of the password as well.

I've sent you an email with it. I think I put in the right addy.

[Knight Otu]

Originally Posted by GnomeWorks

This could possibly be a useful idea. I don't think we judges are doing anything we want to hide from the rest of LEW just yet, so I don't see a real need for this.

Well, there have been one or two discussions better suited to privacy...

Originally Posted by GnomeWorks

You have to make this worth a character's time. Reducing the XP gained per month is fine, but this should be a somewhat viable option, if we want to put some emphasis on it.

Well, that's why I originally sent out that mail, after all. I'm not sure if a skill bonus is the way to go, though. Some other ideas (for Craftsmen, at least) might be allowing item templates a la Arcana Unearthed, reduced Craft Point costs, more Craft points, or more money than I said.
And obviously, Craftsman would not be the best paid or most prestigious job. There'd also be jobs like Orussus Council Member, and the like.

[GnomeWorks]

Originally Posted by Knight Otu

Well, there have been one or two discussions better suited to privacy...

I suppose there have been...

Also, another thing that may prove useful as a private judges subforum would be NPCs, perhaps? That way, we know what they are, and can hand out the stats for them to DMs as necessary.

Well, that's why I originally sent out that mail, after all. I'm not sure if a skill bonus is the way to go, though. Some other ideas (for Craftsmen, at least) might be allowing item templates a la Arcana Unearthed, reduced Craft Point costs, more Craft points, or more money than I said. And obviously, Craftsman would not be the best paid or most prestigious job. There'd also be jobs like Orussus Council Member, and the like.

Given your last point, I don't think increasing the money they gain is a good idea... there needs to be something better, of course.

However, those other ideas... I don't know. Maybe we could write out the jobs like PrCs, but with minimum skill ranks instead of levels to gain abilities? That way there's no BAB or save increase, but there are ability increases, which encourages players to pursue them, but they don't detract from levelling.

[nimisgod]

Not trying to overwhelm the Judges with a wave of issues but two very important issues require resolution:

What do we do with dead PCs?

How do we deal with retiring PCs?

[Creamsteak]

I say we archive both, and both no-longer count towards the character limit so long as there is no plan to go back to them. And if that's your decision, you shouldn't be able to go back to them.

That pretty much covers retirement.

Death, however, is another question. In one of my backstory write-ups, I stated that you could be revived by the priests in the temples nearest the tower of positive energy, but I don't know how exactly to implement that. Perhaps that's just a place where the high level priests might be found. On the other hand, it could also be a "magical" resurrection site that has no gold cost (however you still lose a level). If people don't mind that option (it's a bit lax, but I see no problem given the type of game this is).

If we go with that, the remaining problem is how long the character is out of commission while the body is transported there and back, possibly even by an adventure. Also, the city would definitely need a name at that point.

[Knight Otu]

Does the plan to allow players who retire a high-level character to create a new high-level character (but lower than the retired one) still stand?

[Creamsteak]

I'd like to do that, but I havn't come up with a good implementation of that. Got any ideas?

[Knight Otu]

Not quite. A basic idea would be that the character sheet remains intact in the character thread, but with a note "Character Retired at level x, replaced with Character[link] at level y".

Say, Level -2? We're getting into the realms where some characters would be able to "profit" from that.

Edit: Whoa, sorry about that black text instead of auto-colored text.

[Creamsteak]

I'm cool with level -2. Standard starting wealth for a character of that level?