[OT] Latest Episode of Angel (SPOILERS)

A2Z · 17th April 2002, 03:53 PM

I'm really surprised no one's started a thread about this yet. Especially since it's been so long since the last episode. I just saw it yesterday. I'm a little confused about the Sajan guy though.

SPOILERS
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I know he wants revenge not on Angel but his son, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how that works out. However I kind of spaced out on the whole explanation of what he was by that little girl. (Who by the way was really creepy, shiver) I'm not sure wether Sajan is a unique being or one member of a race. Can anyone clear that up for me?

All in all the episode was pretty good. I seriously thought Wesly was dead at first. And when Angel when nuts on him! I really wasn't expecting that. I kind of thought Angel had calmed down since last season. Well as far as things go Angel seems to be a lot darker than Buffy ever was. Good stuff.

Crothian · 17th April 2002, 04:03 PM

From what I understood Sajan is a member of the race. Whether the race is Sajan or if that's just his name, I'm not sure. I sort of spaced out there to. It was a really weak scene. Personally, I didn't find the little girl that spooky.

The end was fantastic. I'm so glad Angel tried to kill Wes. Not cause I don't like Wes, but it woul;d have really cheapened the episode. It doesn't matter what Wes's intentions where or that he was fooled, Wes is responsible for Conner's disapearence.

It's so nice to have Angel back. Two more weeks for the New Buffy's.

**Henry** · 17th April 2002, 04:07 PM

I will say that the end of the 4-15 Angel episode shocked the crap out of me. My first thought was, "He's got a LOOOONG way to go."

It has created a situation where I am unsure HOW I should feel about the issue. Wesley had more love for Angel's son that I think Angel did himself; however, I understand Angel's anger, because it was that event that caused Conner to be lost to a Hell-dimension, being protected and raised by his greatest enemy.

I do not have children, and this alters my opinion somewhat from that of a parent. But then again, how many parents have children that smell like FOOD to them???

Bill Muench · 17th April 2002, 04:13 PM

That was one good episode.

Sahjann (I think that's how it is spelled - saw it somewhere) is apparently a member of a race - if you look carefully during the flashback scene in the White Room, you can see that the demons have different facial features. And as far as I can tell, Sahjann is his personal name, not the name of the race.

Two things really stood out for me:
1. That Angel didn't hesitate when told to kill Lilah, even though she's human (barely

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2. How totally Angel flipped out - spit flying, screaming, shaking, etc.

Can't wait for next week...

**Pielorinho** · 17th April 2002, 04:19 PM

I'm not sure whether Li'l Miss Evil was saying Sajan was a single being or a race. However, I think you can trust her about as far as you can trust anyone else you meet at that law firm. She's either:
-Trapped in W&H and is nastily messing with their plans; or
-Is one of W&H's founding members -- one of the folks upstairs that you kinda hope you never meet.

And the ritual that she provided to Angel didn't exactly work as advertised. Well, okay, it worked *exactly* as advertised. Just not exactly how it was supposed to work.

In some ways, I suspect that W&H *wants* Sajan to be corporeal now, despite claiming that they were the ones that decorporealized him in the first place. If the firm didn't want him to be corporeal, why would the little girl have given Angel the ritual?

Unless she's a rebellious prisoner....

It was a great episode, and I can't wait to see how the season turns out!
Daniel

A2Z · 17th April 2002, 04:28 PM

Now that you mention it I really want to know more about the White Room girl and W&H's past activities. The little girl kind of reminds me of the computer girl from the Resident Evil movie. -"Your all going to die down here."

Florin · 17th April 2002, 04:41 PM

I REALLY liked that episode. There were a lot of things going on. Here's how my mind is working through things:

The little girl in the White Room. I got the impression that the White Room really doesn't exist anywhere in the W&H building, and it probably doesn't exist in our dimention. She said "We/I (I can't remember if it was we or I) like trouble, but we/I don't like chaos." So, she likes to watch trouble happen, probably because it's entertaining, however, chaos is either dangerous or too hard to watch. She probably gave him the ritual just to keep the trouble going. Either that or she wants Sahjahn dead. (See below.)

Sahjahn wanted Conner out of the way because of a prophecy. Fine, except the whole becoming substantial thing is going to be his downfall. None of Angel's little gang could have harmed Sahjahn while he was incorporeal, but now they can at least touch him, which means they can potentially hurt him.

Potenially Spoling Rumor Ahead!!!
I heard that Conner was going to be making a reappearence in the show as a 22 year old. Combine that with a corporeal Sahjahn, and I think he engineered his own downfall.End PSR

As for Angel freaking out, I never really started watching Angel until the end of last season, so that was a much bigger slide backwards than I expected. It was very cool, though!

**Henry** · 17th April 2002, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Florin
...None of Angel's little gang could have harmed Sahjahn while he was incorporeal, but now they can at least touch him, which means they can potentially hurt him.

The first thing I thought of, when Angel wiped Sahjan's blood off of the bumper of that truck, was the famous quote:

"If it bleeds... we can kill it."

**Pielorinho** · 17th April 2002, 05:46 PM

Good call on Sajan engineering his own downfall!

I'm definitely expecting to see a grown-up Conner soon: I've been expecting it since we found out that Darla was pregnant. The show can support a baby for too long, and if they can't bear to kill Wesley, surely they can't bear to kill an infant.

I expect Fred to shine soon: she knows all about portals between dimensions, and she'll find a way into this new one. Hopefully she'll go crazy in the process -- even though she's a total cutie, it's fun to see the PCs suffer

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I'm most curious, though, on how they're going to heal the rift between Wesley and Angel. I really hope that Wesley isn't planning on leaving the show.

Daniel

KnowTheToe · 17th April 2002, 06:48 PM

The self fulfilling prophecy; it is the oldest story line in the book, but that is because it works so well. I really liked how they had sajaan rewrite the prophecy, that was completely unexpected. I just wonder why the talking hamburger told Wes about watching out for the earthquake, blood etc. Was that rigged by Sajaan as well?

I really liked the episode. This has been an awesome season for Angel, I wish Buffy still had decent story lines.

Hand of Vecna · 18th April 2002, 06:15 AM

GRAH! I thought the next new Angel was next week! GRAAAH!!!!!!

Welverin · 18th April 2002, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A2Z
I know he wants revenge not on Angel but his son, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how that works out. However I kind of spaced out on the whole explanation of what he was by that little girl. (Who by the way was really creepy, shiver) I'm not sure wether Sajan is a unique being or one member of a race. Can anyone clear that up for me?

Since no one stated it clearly SahJahn (according to TV Guide) doesn't want revenge on Conner he just wants him dead because Conner was prophesized to kill SahJahn. This led to SahJahn going back in time to change the prophecy to say the father kills the son, resulting in this seasons high jinks.

Quote:

All in all the episode was pretty good. I seriously thought Wesley was dead at first. And when Angel when nuts on him! I really wasn't expecting that.

I don?t think I ever believed Wesley was dead but I was hoping he was. I did however watch the entire episode waiting for them to show him alive again. I was glad Angel freaked out, which I wasn?t expecting.

Mistwell · 18th April 2002, 10:14 AM

Oh Jesus, it's bad enough that you guys discuss each episode of Buffy on here, but now you're discussing each episode of it's near-cancellation spinoff show? Come on! There's got to be a message board dedicated to this stuff that you can take this too...

Staffan · 18th April 2002, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamelToe
I just wonder why the talking hamburger told Wes about watching out for the earthquake, blood etc. Was that rigged by Sajaan as well?

Note that the Loa said that the father would devour the child, not kill it. Since Angel drank Connor's blood, that part is probably already fulfilled.

**Pielorinho** · 18th April 2002, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Staffan

Note that the Loa said that the father would devour the child, not kill it. Since Angel drank Connor's blood, that part is probably already fulfilled.

I meant to follow up on this: the Loa named was, IIRC, Elegba (sp?). He's the drunken lech of a trickster god in the Voudoun pantheon; when he confirmed the prophecy, I was betting dollars to donuts that he wasn't being entirely straightforward about it.

Why did he confirm the prophecy? He probably thought it was funny.

There's a reason why you don't call on trickster gods for your divinations. I hope Wesley has learned his lesson, and goes and beats on the schmuck that sold him the spell.

Daniel

A2Z · 18th April 2002, 03:05 PM

[Edited to remove unnecessarily vitriolic retort]

**Piratecat** · 18th April 2002, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mistwell
Oh Jesus, it's bad enough that you guys discuss each episode of Buffy on here, but now you're discussing each episode of it's near-cancellation spinoff show? Come on! There's got to be a message board dedicated to this stuff that you can take this too...

Guy, it's clearly labeled. If you see a subject that doesn't interest you, avoid it - but please don't enter the thread solely to criticize it.

Thanks.

**Henry** · 18th April 2002, 03:40 PM

Well said, P-cat.

However, I do want to take this time to point out a site well worth visiting: www.scoopme.com. They have some fantastic well-thought-out discussion over there on most of the hot TV shows, and in particular have a very dedicated and educated core of Buffy and Angel TV reviewers and fans. I highly recommend it, and post there regularly. A sample of the head reviewer's (Josh's) style:

Quote:

Even though Wesley knew that he had betrayed Angel, he must have been hoping upon hope that Angel would find it in his non-beating heart to forgive him. Instead, he finds himself on the receiving end of a pillow sandwich.

"You think I forgive you? Never! You’re gonna die, you hear me? You’re gonna pay! I’ll never forgive you, never! You’re a dead man, Pryce! I’ll kill you, I’ll kill you!"

Imagine those words, coming out of the mouth of a man for whom you thought you had sacrificed everything. Imagine those words coming from a man closer to you than any member of your own family. Imagine wishing the man had been able to finish what he started.

Angel has a soul. As I have said before, one need not be an evil blood-sucking demon to commit acts of horror and rage. He lost his son. He felt betrayed. So yes, I understand Angel’s actions.

I understand, but I don’t condone.

I love the place! Stop by!

Oogar · 18th April 2002, 03:52 PM

Hehe, there is a reason that some of us who frequent these boards would rather discuss something of common interest here, then at an innumerable number of other boards. We are aware that those we converse with here have at least some commonality of background. We enjoy the story, and even if someone thinks that a character is attractive we won't see.....

"They can't kill Wesley! He's too cute!! And Angel looked all nasty when he started spitting and stuff. What was up with that?"

I like that fact that people on these boards seem more likely to enjoy the "Story" then the hotties. Not that I have a problem with the cute, I just don't need to see it discussed.

In topic, I quite enjoyed the show, but I saw an old Connor returning as soon as the baby went through the rift. I also see Angel and his son being about as friendly towards one another as...... Can't think of a good not getting along thing. Buffy and Faith? Oil and Water? Petrol and Matches?
Holtz will have so poisoned the boy, that if Connor does not try to kill Angel in his moment of recogintion I will be very surprised. But, the surprises make the show worth watching.

Staffan · 18th April 2002, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oogar
In topic, I quite enjoyed the show, but I saw an old Connor returning as soon as the baby went through the rift. I also see Angel and his son being about as friendly towards one another as...... Can't think of a good not getting along thing. Buffy and Faith? Oil and Water? Petrol and Matches?
Holtz will have so poisoned the boy, that if Connor does not try to kill Angel in his moment of recogintion I will be very surprised. But, the surprises make the show worth watching.

Of course, Sahjahn has described himself as a demon with the ability to flit back and forth through time. It's very possible that in addition to sending Holtz and Connor to a very different place, they could also have gone to another time, maybe 20-30 years backwards in time.

One would also think that Angel's son would look a lot like Angel, and have the same build, and like many of the same things Angel likes. Maybe he would fancy the same broadsword. Maybe he would have similar taste in women.

Also, just because you couldn't open up a rift to the hell-dimension from Earth more than once per century or so, that doesn't mean that you couldn't go somewhere else from it. Perhaps to Pylea.