Magic Carpets and Fly Spells

[barsoomcore]

One thing I realised: Since Take-Off requires a Piloting skill check, and Piloting is a Trained skill, somebody without ranks in Piloting cannot jump on a flying carpet and zoom away. Likewise with the fly spell.

Here's my suggestion: We provide an adjustment to the description for the fly spell:

The subject of a fly spell gains the ability to use the Piloting skill as though they had 8 ranks in the skill.

We also adjust all magic items that provide flying as follows:

This item allows the user to use the Piloting skill as though they had 8 ranks in the skill.

This is consistent with our treatment of flying creatures and makes a flying carpet a pretty nimble little platform. We could provide rules for generating more nimble flying carpets -- enchanting Handling Modifiers.

Thoughts?

[BlackJaw]

If your under the effects of a spell that allows flight then you gain the +8 bonus. (there are other spells besides flight I think) We also extend that description to magic items that duplicate or provide those spells, then we use the Flight spell and the fly carpet as examples. Polymorph can also provide flight (if take a from with wings) etc. (remeber that DMs are encouraged to inflict skill check penalties on unfamilar forms with Polymorph)

The idea is to make sure that once you read our rules you can still use all your spells (even ones maybe from a third party, or otherwise not just Fly) and all your magic items as you are use to. In most cases magic items simply provide the effects of the spell. A fly

This could be abused though. If you cast fly on a low level pilot (level one has a max of 4 ranks) he gets 8 ranks because (even though they wouldn't stack) the 8 is more then his 4.

Another idea is to simply say piloting isn't trainable only. Besides what happens if a non-pilot sits down at a cockpit of a vehicle in flight (IE the passenger jet's pilot just had a heart attack and is in a coma... some one has to fly the plane now) Are you going to say he can't attempt any piloting checks... because I asure you he will want to try and land the vehicle. I'd figure that its probably cross-class for most people, but if your running a flight based setting (Crimson skies type for example) then more then just the pilot class will have it added to their skill lists. To put it another way, Piloting isn't exactly something you can't try without training (if we have a system of vehicle profeciencey then you may try with no ranks and -4 penalty) the same way Scrying or Use Magic Device are. If you can use the skill without training, then anyone can fly with the proper magic spell/item... but they won't be great at it unless they have skill ranks (implying they practiced or were trained).

[barsoomcore]

Sold!

Piloting is NOT a Trained Only skill.

So all we need to do is say that the subject of a fly spell or someone using a flying magic item can maneuver themselves (or the magic item in question) as though they had a +8 bonus to their Piloting skill. This does not allow anyone to cast a fly spell on someone and have them fly an aircraft with a +8 bonus -- the bonus only applies when maneuvering via the effect that gave the bonus.

This causes a problem, though, in that the DCs for Take-Off and Landing need to be higher. Right now the DC for Take-Off is 10 and a pilot can take 10 on that check. This means that anyone can ALWAYS take off successfully under normal conditions. I vote the DC for Take Off be increased to 15. This means a first-level pilot with at least a +1 Dexterity modifier can max their ranks (4) in Piloting and with the +1 from Dex can Take Off automatically. Landing DC right now is 15. I vote it be increased to 20.

[BlackJaw]

Why are we increasing the landing DC? why not have them both be 15... (yah go ahead and increase the take off to 15)

[barsoomcore]

A DC of 15 for landing means that anyone (even someone who's never flown a vehicle before) can land a vehicle if they spend three rounds on their approach -- they get a +2 per round spent and can take 10. With a DC of 20 an untrained pilot with a Dexterity of 18 can automatically land with a three-round approach, but anyone else still needs to make a roll. A trained pilot of first level with Max Ranks in Piloting can automatically land after a three-round approach unless they have a negative modifier on their Dexterity.

That all seems pretty reasonable to me.

I don't think landing should ever be automatic for anyone who's never been shown how to do it.

It also means that any flying creature (with a racial bonus of +8) can automatically land after a one-round approach. Or no approach, if they have at least a 14 Dexterity.

[BlackJaw]

ok, up the landing DC.