how to create golems

[Devon]

I've been thinking about how to determine what goes into creating a golem (spells, creator level, money, materials), and I've come up with a list of observations about how they seem to be handled in the 3e monstrous sourcebook. Hopefully these observations will serve as a guide for determining golem construction requirements.

Please, if anyone else has additional observations based upon golem-related material from other supplements (or from Sword & Sorcery), we might be able to work out a system for determining how much a given golem will cost. Feel free to counter any observations I have with other examples.

Thank you,

- Devon

Conclusions:

Construction costs:
Total costs range from 50,000 to 100,000 gp. While it can be argued that making smaller golems should reduce this, it should be noted that only a fraction of this cost is associated with the body itself, which ranges from 500 to 1500 gp.

Creation: Golems normally require one or more Craft skills to create. Sometimes Profession will work, or even Heal in the case of reanimating living tissue. These skills are usually determined by the golem's nature (Glass golems require glassmaking, gem golems require gemcutting, stone golems require sculpting or masonry). The DC for these checks depends not upon the power of the golem, but on the materials used. DCs range from 13 to 20.

In addition, most golems require that the creator set up a ritual workspace furnished with alchemical and ritual apparatus usually costing another 1,000 gp, but these workspaces are reusable.

Supplemental items:
Occasionally golem crafters will also create a supplemental item for the golem, such as an amulet to control it, or a defensive item to protect the creator from the golem or one of its powers. These items are usually included in the construction cost, require no XP expenditure, and are less difficult to make than the golem itself (requiring a lower DC).

Creator:
Creators usually need to be able to cast arcane or divine spells. Although not all golems specify the Craft Wondrous Item feat as a requirement, it should be assumed that it does. Creators usually require a minimum level to understand the ritual associated with constructing the golem, ranging from 12th to 16th level depending on the golem's power.

XP Drain:
XP drains for creating a golem ranges from 1,000 to 2,000 xp, depending on the golem's power.

Spells:
Golems usually require great magics to make them work. The basic spells are usually geas/quest, limited wish, and polymorph any object. Golems from divine sources (such as the clay golem) usually substitute animate objects, bless, commune, prayer, and resurrection. The net effect of these spells is to imbue the golem with an animating force, render it obedient to its master, bind it to the body, and enchant the body such that it is able to move of its own volition, as well as providing the near immunity to all magic typical of golems. Lesser golems can be created which are not immune to most magics, and limited wish seems to be the one spell absolutely required to activate the golem (in the case of arcane spellcasters), providing it with animating force. Even geas/quest seems optional in certain golems.

In addition to these motivating and binding spells, the golem's unusual powers and abilities require the casting of additional spells.

All of the spells must be cast personally by the creator, but they can come from outside sources, such as scrolls, presumably of her own creation.

[Gish Makai]

Devon,

I am interested in your creation table or whatever you decide to make. I have a new golem in the wings but the Construction of it is slowing me down.

I really would like to see what you have in mind.

[Gish Makai]

Devon,

I have found out that the XP cost of creating a golem is 2% of the total cost of the golem.

Hope this helps at least a little bit.

[MythandLore]

I was thinking of doing a chart of Golems too.
Flesh, Clay, Stone, Iron, from Colossal to Fine.
Have the stats for each and the cost to make.
If your going to do it I'm all for it, it would be very useful.

[Devon]

I have been told that Monte Cook's "Book of Eldritch Might" has rules on creating golems, and so I am thinking I'll wait until I can acquire a copy to see if I can compare/contrast with what Monte has done.

I nevertheless fear that the rules he has come up with may only work for clockwork/mechanical constructs, but until I see a copy, I won't know how the wording is resolved.

If anyone has already read the book and can speak as to its universal application to golems, I would love to hear your feedback, though I wouldn't ask you to post Monte's work and violate his intellectual property.

- Devon

[Gish Makai]

ok I looked at Monte's formula. Basically here is what he has.

Cost for creating = 10,000 gp/HD
XP drain = 100 xp/HD or for metal 150 xp/HD (Not quite the same formula as WoTC's)

[Devon]

I found Monte Cook's construct template from the Book of Eldritch Might (offered for free on his website), and while it seems clear enough, it didn't address a few issues which concerned me. I downloaded the full book ($5), and it didn't elaborate any more than the excerpt.

First, he only mentions Stone and Metal constructs, so the template doesn't address constructs of other types.

Next, the Arcane/Divine issue. Arcane and Divine spellcasters can both create stone constructs, but limited wish (listed as one of the 4 spells) is only an arcane spell, and polymorph any object (another required spell) is only for arcane spellcasters and clerics with the Trickery domain. Stone shape and geas/quest are, thankfully, open to both arcane and divine casters. Also, only arcane casters can create metal constructs (and that list is fully arcane spells). It does mention that visiting spellcasters can provide one of the spells, but this is not common to the seminal four golems (flesh, stone, clay and iron), although these do address outside sources.

Also, it mentions that a creator needs to be 16th level for both stone and metal constructs, regardless of the creation's power level. The standard four golems do vary as far as minimum caster level.

Overall, the template serves to convert existing creatures into stone and metal construct forms. Which is great, and I'll use it. However, it doesn't go into enough detail about the broad spectrum of golem creation.

What we do get is a baseline for determining costs (10,000 per hit die), xp (for stone, 100/hit die, or 1% of its cost in gold; for metal, 150 xp/hit die, or 1.5% of its cost in gold), a value for the lab (500 gp), the feats needed (Craft Wondrous Item or Craft Magic Arms and Armor), and the time expenditure.

Mongoose is publishing a book on construct creation (part of their Encyclopaedia Arcane line), so maybe they'll have something on the general nature of golems. Or I'll have to forge my own set of suggestions.

- Devon

[Gish Makai]

Ok I asked over at wizards boards and here is what I got.

truehighlander
Member
Member # 60665


posted February 20, 2002 02:03 AM
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TaB Pg 78 breaks it down *prereqs*costs*spells* look for wondrous items-Golem manual

[Krishnath]

The gold cost for the four basic golems are:

Flesh Golem = 1000 gp * hp, (round up to nearest 10000 gp)
Clay Golem = 1000 gp * hp, (round up to nearest 10000 gp)
Stone Golem = 1000 gp * hp, (round up to nearest 10000 gp)
Iron Golem = 1000 gp * hp, (round up to nearest 10000 gp)

which indicates that the total gold cost of creating a golem equals, the golems total hp x 1000gp rounded up to the nearest 10000 gp.

Now, the Flesh Golem has 49 hp, 49*1000 = 49000 rounded up becomes 50000 gp.
for the clay golem, it's: 60 hh, 60*1000 = 60000 gp, no need to round it up,
for Stone it's: 77*1000 = 77000, rounded up to 80000 gp,
Iron = 99 hp, 99*1000 = 99000, rounded up to 100000 gp

The total Xp cost equals the cost in Gp/50, the same as with most other magical items.

Flesh = 50000/50 = 1000 Xp
Clay = 60000/50 = 1200 Xp
Stone = 80000/50 = 1600 Xp
Iron = 100000/50 = 2000 Xp

Now, the tricky part, calculating the body cost.

For Flesh golems, the cost of the body equals 1% of the total cost or 500 gp, I would suggest that this ratio should be the same for all organically based golems, such as bone and wood.

For Clay it equals 2,5% of the total cost, 1500 gp, this ratio should be the same for all golems, made from a mutable non-organic medium such as clay or dirt.

For stone golems, the body cost equals 1,25% of the total cost, or 1000 gp, the same ratio could be used with other golems, made from a hard non-metallic mineral, such as jade, marble, or obsidian.

Iron golems are not one of the most expensive types of golems to create, with the body cost only being 1,5% of total cost. This should be the same for all golems made mostly from metal or metal alloys, such as Brass, Copper, Gold, Silver, or Mithril.

I will check the gemstone golems later, but this should be a start

[BOZ]

not bad.

[ragnarok]

since the costs to create are (in the MM) always included in the full prize: What's so special about the body cost? Are they recyle-able or why do Wotc always tell us this costs?

[ragnarok]

Good work by the way!

[keb]

Originally posted by ragnarok
since the costs to create are (in the MM) always included in the full prize: What's so special about the body cost? Are they recyle-able or why do Wotc always tell us this costs?

That's pretty much the reason. If the creation ritual is interrupted for some reason, the creator has to start over, but he can reuse the golem's body.

[Krishnath]

Thak you! All of you! any cost process can be found, if you just work hard enough at it, now I wonder what Devon thinks of my work?

[Devon]

Thank you for your hard work, Krishnath. Your efforts are not in vain.

The total Xp cost equals the cost in Gp/50, the same as with most other magical items.

This is consistent with the 2% rule posted earlier; it works for the prime four as well as the Shield Golem, and is the standard for Monte's Construct template.

which indicates that the total gold cost of creating a golem equals, the golems total hp x 1000gp rounded up to the nearest 10000 gp.

This looks pretty consistent with the prime four golems, but calculating things based on hit points (and not hit dice) is almost like finding out that the Force is made up of microbes... I just feel dirty knowing it .

However, this equation doesn't work with the Shield Golem, (82 hp, costs 100,000gp), which would round up to 90,000 with the hp*1000, rounded up theory.

Perhaps the current theoretical equation would be able to work if we determined some way to account for extra powers, although the shield guardian, lacking the traditional golem's immunity to all magic, is arguably weaker than a prime golem, although not necessarily less useful.

I was thinking of doing a chart of Golems too.
Flesh, Clay, Stone, Iron, from Colossal to Fine.
Have the stats for each and the cost to make.
If your going to do it I'm all for it, it would be very useful.

While well and good, this would be something best circulated offline, as it would perhaps be considered infringement. I've created a breakdown of each one (nothing special, just the data we're bandying about), but not the full stat list (which can be cut and pasted from the SRD... when it becomes public domain, that is ).

What we need is a consistent way to figure in the golem's immunities, as well as extra powers. I would imagine this would most likely be based on CR, as that is a rough guesstimate of a creature's power. What's the cost difference between a standard iron golem, and an iron golem with a disintegrate ray? When a golem has healing spells, does the creator need to cast each and every one into the golem at the time of binding, or should it just get the heal spell, or resurrection, and be allowed to cast lesser versions based on the initial enchantment? What if a clay golem weren't immune to most magic? What if a golem creator doesn't work with another spellcaster, and thus has no access to half the basic spells required to bind it (which don't seem consistent at the moment)? These are the things which cause me some concern...

Maybe I'm thinking too hard about this.

Devon

[Devon]

What's so special about the body cost?
Are they recyle-able or why do Wotc always tell us this costs?

Not only that, we have to know how much to pay the artisan contracted to create the body .

I wonder if buying the artisan's silence can be counted towards the total cost?

"O-kee, dat's 2,000 gold for the steel-frame back-swept, fully-articulated, blade-armed, black steel construct, with the optional ruby eyes and poison receptacles...

aaaaaaand, another 40,000 to keep me from sending a missive to Duke Reynolds with the details of this unholy thing you've had me create."

"That leaves me only 8,000 to buy incense and newt gizzards! Not to mention renting the dancers!"

Devon

[Richards]

Next month, the latest in Mongoose Publishing's "Encyclopaedia Arcane" series will be hitting the shelves. This one's called "Constructs," and examines not only golems but also automatons, simulacra, and homunculi. It should be interesting.

[Gish Makai]

Originally posted by Richards
Next month, the latest in Mongoose Publishing's "Encyclopaedia Arcane" series will be hitting the shelves. This one's called "Constructs," and examines not only golems but also automatons, simulacra, and homunculi. It should be interesting.

I am definately getting this book.

[Krishnath]

Devon: first and foremost: the Shield Guardian is not a golem, just need to point that out before I continue
Well anyways, it was a solid attempt at trying to figure out the cost, and I am glad that someone pointed out the inconsistencies (Phew! long word) of the formula, similar thing was discovered by me, when I browsed the construction costs of Gem Golems, but you can't blame a guy from trying

So far, we have established that the Xp cost of Golems equals 2% of the total cost in gold. So at least thats a start, I will look over the golems again in a couple of days, since I'm busy tomorrow. But I will find the formula, this I swear by the Great Old Ones! (Yes I'm a cthulhu fan, why else do you think I love mind flayers and beholderkin so much )

[Devon]

Yes I'm a cthulhu fan, why else do you think I love mind flayers and beholderkin so much

I can't argue with you... I'm the Cthulhu guru for my LARP troupe, Dreams of Deirdre.

the Shield Guardian is not a golem

True, it's just a construct, but I want there to be some consistent way to figure out what they require. It seems to need the same spells as a golem, and it costs more per hit point, yet it lacks the immunities.

Maybe our needs will be answered by Encyclopedia Arcane: Constructs.

when I browsed the construction costs of Gem Golems

What did you discover about them?

- Devon