PDFs with no art

[hudarklord]

I know this has been discussed in various incarnations, but, in short, what do people think of PDF products with little or no artwork at all.

I know that full color PDFs are pretty and people tend to rate them higher for professional look and feel. But at the same time, everybody and there brother seems to complain about having lots of artwork in a product that they want to send to their ink jet printer.

Some people have decided to format a color version with art and a no-art, no color version. My question -- is this particularly fruitful? Are people going to actually rate your product based on the color version and then use the black and white, no art version? Or are they going to mostly rely on the quality of the printed version, without art? If so, why spend the extra money on art in any case?

I view PDFs as either:

a) laptop reference materials
b) things I want to print out on an inkjet


In neither case do I think art is hugely useful -- which is very different from my impressions on how I'd produce a printed product in the stores.


In short -- is it worth the extra layout and costs to include art in a PDF or is it not? Can a product look and feel professional in PDF format without art?


Thoughts?

Comments?

Lee

[HellHound]

Remember that a picture is supposedly worth 1,000 words. Describing an NPC in detail is nice, being able to show a picture of said NPC is better.

After a year of publishing, I have found that good art is a NECESSITY in a PDF product. Not a LOT of art, but some well-chosen and well-placed art. It breaks up the text making the product easier to read. It helps illustrate what is being said. Some users complain about the art, wishing there were less, but overall a well-illustrated product is better received by the reviewers and the public - if anything, selling a product with both versions (screen and print) SIGNIFICANTLY increases your product ratings in reviews - the reviewers tend to mention this as a positive aspect, that you can view it in a very pretty and professional format on-screen AND you can print it out without eating up your entire ink supply.

And I have seen some pretty scathing reviews of products without art. A fantastic product without art will not be hurt by the lack of art. But a good product without art will lose marks, and a mediocre product without art drops to the bottom of the barrel. The VAST majority of private responses I have received to our own products have alwasy been favourable to the inclusion of the artwork in question.

[Morrus]

If I recall correctly, Librum Equitus I had no art in it, and that product did phenomenally well, So I don't think having no art is a barrier to succeeding with a PDF. However, it will probably bias some people (but then, having too much art does as well).

I think that having two versions is the way to go. That way you give the buyer the choice, instead of making it for them. They can print out whichever one their printing setup/budget allows them too - so some will print out nice full colour books at work (or at a print shop), while others will choose to print out a less grahpical version at home. Even if they choose to do the latter, they still have the nice one on their hard drive, and could print it out in future should the opportunity arise.

I do think that nice art etc. does make something *appear* more professional. But it's not the biggest factor. I thin it's enough of a factor that I do recommend that you invest the extra time (and money) to make it look pretty.

One other thing which is important, and can have a big effect on art both good and bad, is layout. Bad layout can ruin a book with great art, and it can make a book with less stellar art. Tournaments, Fairs & Taverns had a grand total of 6 pieces of art in it, but that was kinda disguised with pretty layout.

[HellHound]

Fully agree with Morrus regarding layout.

I've seen a few books go to print where I was less than impressed with the interior art (good, but not amazing). But with a layout that USES this art to proper effect, the final product looked KILLER.

[jmucchiello]

My only product has one drawing in it (and it's not very significant). If you read the reviews on my product on this site you will see that several of the reviewers made note of the lack of artwork but did not demerit because of it. That was a year ago and I believe things have changed since then. Everyone seems to release the screen and the print version of their product.

My next product (if I ever finish it) will have about 5% artwork. Less than a printed book but certainly better than no artwork. (The preview available following the link in my sig shows some of the artwork.) My layout problem at the moment is that I commisioned the work for portrait mode and now there's the landscape movement in PDFs.

Oh, and ditto to everything Morrus and Hellhound said.

[mythusmage]

Here, now I present my recommendations for anyone thinking of doing a PDF product.

Interesting Subject: Write about something that interests you. That way you'll do your best, and that will communicate itself to the reader.

Good Writing: Never publish your first draft. Once you've gotten words down on paper (or screen), look it over and see how you can say it better. Above all, let yourself have a voice. You're supposed to get people interested in what you're writing about, and a dry style works against that.

Art: Use art that's appropriate and place it well. If your art budget wouldn't pay for a music CD, use clip art (there's tons of the stuff on the web). Don't worry about putting art on every page. Select pages where art would enhance the reading experience, and illuminate a point or section. Such as, say, when talking about a character type. If at all possible, start each chapter with a piece of art, and end it with another. If a chapter ends on an even numbered page, and you don't feel like having a blank page, use a full page illustration. (That last bit has to do with layout)

Color Art vs Line Art: Use color art for the cover. It'll draw attention and could help sell the book. Use line art for the interior. For one thing, line art does not take up as much ink as color art would.

Font and Size: Sans serif for the screen, serif for print. This is for ease of reading. You want to use a font that is comfortable to read, at the size used. Size itself depends on the font.

In sans serif Geneva, Charcoal, and Chicago are readable onscreen at around 10 points, but other fonts need to be presented in a larger size to be legible. In serif New York and Times New Roman can be read at 8 points, while Monaco and Palantino are readable at 10 points. But, you really should save 8 point type for the legal stuff.

How much you can cram into each page depends on the font used. Monaco and Chicago are small fonts, and so more verbiage can be but on a page (it has to do with typographic design, an esoteric subject in it's own write. There are some fonts out there that are positively tiny at even 12 points). But a font that looks good at 8 or 10 points can be downright ugly at 12 points or higher.

It also depends on the look you want. Chicago is a straightforward, workaday font. It was designed at the Chicago Times to be easy to read. Charcoal is a little fussier, a bit more "artsy". As such it gives a different look and feel to prose. New York (designed at the New York Times) is a lot like Chicago, a working font for ease of reading at small point sizes. Monaco and Palantino are more elegant fonts, meant for prose that is comfortable to read over a period of time.

In any case, make sure the font and type size you choose are comfortable for you.

Headings: The font you use for text will not work in a heading. Here you want one that fits the theme of your book. That gives the reader a good idea of what's in your product. A font named, "Greek Capitals" will not make a good header font for a book on ancient Japan. At the same time, the title of the book and the credits shown with it really should be in different fonts themselves. The title font should be attention getting, easily read at a distance, and say something about the contents. With the name of the author or authors and publisher in a smaller type, but still readable at a distance. In addition, the title should be in a different color than black, with the author's name in a different color from the title.

Layout: Art on the left, unless it ends a chapter, or it's a piece in the middle of a chapter or section that would look better in the middle or on the right. Art should never take up more than a third of a page. Any larger and it overwhelms the writing. The pieces used should be appropriate to the chapter's subject. If you are going to be combining heading or title with a piece of art, make sure the two work together to communicate what you want to say.

At the paper size used for most RPG products the following guidelines apply: At 8 points, 4 columns; at 10 points, 3 columns; at 12 points, 2 columns. Interior illustration are sized in columns horizontally. So in a book with two columns (12 point type) an illustration will be one half to two columns wide.

Indent paragraphs. About 5 points (0.16") is best. Single space between paragraphs. (This double spacing crud is a waste of space and looks unprofessional in my opinion. Besides, it lets you put more into a page in the way of writing.) Double space between sections in a chapter. (Whether you double space between a section heading and the text is up to you. I prefer to double space between a major section heading and the text, but not a minor section heading and the following text.) Always double space between a title chapter and the rest of the chapter.

That's about it for now. If you have anything more to add, feel free. I'll see about putting together a document as an example of what I'm talking about.

Hope this helped.

[hudarklord]

Originally posted by mythusmage

Alan -- you are a wonderful person with wonderful advice. Thanks. The fontography and layout info was very interesting and useful.


Cheers,
Lee

[Gez]

If doing two versions (one to print and one to read on screen), be sure that the on-screen version has wide, rather than tall, pages. One page should fit entirely on the screen. For the same reason, illos should never be spread on two pages, they should be seen wholly on one page. And don't forget to put in hyperlinks each times there's a reference to something put elsewhere in the book.

[philreed]

Originally posted by mythusmage
Here, now I present my recommendations for anyone thinking of doing a PDF product.

I find it interesting how many of these items I agree with and how many of them I break.

[jmucchiello]

Originally posted by philreed
I find it interesting how many of these items I agree with and how many of them I break.

Ditto.

[annadobritt]

Alan, information like that should be chiseled in stone!!

A lot of very excellent advice for pdfs. This should go in the epublishing handbook being worked on by RPGHost James.

[mythusmage]

Originally posted by philreed



I find it interesting how many of these items I agree with and how many of them I break.

Least you have some taste. Bad, but taste.

Any… …who, it all comes down to what works. Things are laid out in professional publications as they are because it works. Sometimes doing it wrong works better than doing it right. For the effect you want. In the long run you want to attract the customer, get him into the book, and get him to stick with the book. Sometimes the subject matter will do it. But most often you need an appealing graphic design, a good title, good layout, and compelling writing. You can succeed with three of the above, but with all four you could do well indeed.

My preference runs to 1/2 inch outer and 1 inch inner margins, 36 or 48 point chapter titles (depending on font) with 18 point headers, 14 point sub-headers, and 12 point sub-sub-headers. Text in 10 Palatino (3 columns). Illustrations in the upper left corner or under the chapter title to start a chapter off. Incidental art to separate major sections, and an end-piece at the end of each chapter. A full page illo to fill an blank page between chapters.

I always start a chapter on an odd-numbered page.

Table of contents and index of course

Your mileage may vary.

It all comes down to, as long as you enjoy what you're doing, and it sells.

[jaerdaph]

Originally posted by mythusmage
Here, now I present my recommendations for anyone thinking of doing a PDF product.

Thank you very much for taking the time to post this, Alan - very useful, and extremely informative.

[Gargoyle]

No art is better than substandard art, and a few good pieces are better than lots of mediocre ones. Never put any art that you aren't completely happy with into a product, even if you've paid for it already.

Be careful with your art budget. It's easy to spend more on art than you can make with a PDF. Go with a few quality pieces.

Good luck!

[malladin]

I think the PDF market has moved on significantly in just the last 6 months.

When we started, Forgotten Heroes: Paladin did really well with no art, but our later products, with some if not great art content, have failed to match that, drawing comments that they need more work on the art side. Joe's Enchanters came out at a similar time and has been recieved similarly well.

The PDF marked has just plain exploded of late, with Mongoose, Mystic Eye and Wizards all coming into the field. This makes it harder for little guys like us to compete, and means that people are starting to expect a much higher standard from their PDF.

It's hard when you're on a tight budget to compete with this. Libram Equitus and Beyond Monks did very well in the early days, but you get shifted off that front screen so quickly now that your sales are not likely to be as big as these earlier products even if the quality is better.

My personal view is that us little guys need to team up together for marketting purposes and try and expand the general interest in our tier of the market, rather than trying to out compete each other.

James - what do you think about a combined Paladin sourcebook, containing material from Call to Duty and FH Paladin?

cheerio,

Ben, Malladin's Gate

[Drawmack]

As a huge fan of pdf's I would like to offer some comments to the publishers.

1) PDF offers you the ability to display one thing and print another. USE THIS IT'S THERE FOR A REASON. When I view your product I want each page to display on my screen without scrolling. So landscape it and make it so that at 100% it fits on an 800x600 res monitor. Also make it easily readable on my screen. 10 point font is almost never readable on the monitor when the res is cranked, however if you size it for 8x6 then I can blow it up and still have it be a page per screen and readable on screen. But print in portrait.

2) Offering printable and non-printable versions is good. Bastion does this by simply removing the page borders on the printable version. I would go even further though and recommend a high speed/printable version. The smaller a file is the quicker it opens and navigates on older machines. My at the table laptop is a p650 with 32 megs of ram. Sorry your pdf aint getting used at my table it this little baby cannot quickly zoom through it. Not getting used at my table is 6 lost sales as my players will not purchase it if I'm not going to use it.

3) taking the art out of the printable version does not mean redoing the format. Leave a blank box where the art was - it gives me a place to take notes. How many pdf publishers are gamers? How many of you take notes on your books? Just yank the picture stick a little text at the top that says notes and I'd be happy.

4) Link your friggin pdf properly. One of the major benefits of digital is that it's linked. Do not give me an index that isn't linked, do not give me a toc that isn't linked and ESPECIALLY do not give me internal cross references that are not linked. If I purchase an improperly linked pdf I will never purchase another from your company, hence why I've only purchased 1 nat20 pdf.

5) Samples. When I'm going to purchase a print book I can go to my FLGS and check it out first. I do not have that option with a pdf so you must offer a sample. This sample should be exactly what I can expect from the purchased product including multiple versions if you're providing that in the purchased product. If I purchase a pdf from you and it is significantly different from the preview I will not be purchasing another one.

[JoeGKushner]

One thing I think is important to note that when you're talking about a book that's just text, it's not necessarily a matter of missing art that hurts it.

Saint John's College of Abjuration and Coffer of Coins come to mind. Both have places but neither have maps. A map is not art per say, but it is a visual aid that is vital in insuring that locations are easy to understand and use.

Art is also useful for cases like Battle Magic from Mongoose when you're defining you're own area of effect spells.

Monster books without art, even a PDF book, probably aren't going to do as well as those with it.