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I wanted to see if anyone had some advice for a small PDF publisher that's trying but feeling like we are treading water. We have banner ads running, received mention on boards front pages, posted in there respective press release areas and I sent out over 20 copies for reviewers of our latest adventure. I am most concerned about the lack of reviews, good or bad, I notice that products released long after ours have been reviewed but we languish. For us the reviews are critical to the next step in our growth and I was wondering if I should do something else or something different, I sent out all the reviewer copies using RPGNow and it's cool complimentary copy feature but wondered if that was not the right way to go or what. I would like to see if anyone has suggestions, we are operating on a purposeful small budget and print ads are just to expensive for a PDF only release, I even drove to hobby shops and they agreed to let me put up a little poster I made. Anyway I await pearls of wisdom.
The new adventure is called Ruined Keep and we released in July.
Do as morrus suggests and send a review copy to crothian. I'd also suggest you get involved with the EN World community. As strange as it sounds, doing something non-business may actually help your business most of all.
I was part of the community for about 6 months or so before putting out A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. In retrospect, this helped me tremendously because people were curious enough to at least check out my work, and if they had any questions they could just "ask the author" which everyone loves to do. The hardest part is getting people to look at it. If it's good, it will help sell itself.
I guess this could sound kinda cynical, advising you to become part of the community for business reasons, but really, being part of the community is very fullfilling in a multitude of ways and it provides you with a group of people who are willing to help you in many ways be better at what your trying to do, whether or not that's putting out a better product, or if just trying to be a good DM. Get out there, post, help people with questions, help get your questions answered and that interaction will help your business in the long run.
And, none of us bite, just watch out for P-Kitty's hook.....
Morrus, I sent you a copy in July and Crothian a copy when this new website was unveiled and big surprise I got no response from either of you. I know Crothian has been inundated so no blame to him. JG I appreciate the advice both my partner and I have tried to be more vocal recently and get involved. We knew we were aimed at a small market segment with adventures but we wanted to test the waters and the enviroment, with a source book due next we need to get maximum exposure and feedback. I guess I am frustrated with the many reviewers for ignoring us. Should I follow up with them? All advice is welcome and appreciated.
Let me assure you that you're not alone! As another new publisher (focusing on d20 Modern material), we are having a heck of a time getting our material reviewed. I'll be watching this thread very carefully! I think it's partially a sign of the times. There are so many new publishers and products out there that we've outstripped the number of reviewers.
This next bit is directed to Morrus: First of all, thanks so much for setting up the new PDF focused site! I got in touch with Crothian, and I believe we're in his reviewing queue. However, we've had a heck of a time getting ourselves added to the d20 publisher's list on another part of your site. We've sent a couple e-mails and posted a forum note, but haven't gotten any kind of response. Granted all of this has been since last Friday so it's only been a week. Is there any way to automate the addition of publishers to the list, as you've done with adding reviews?
Preston
12 to Midnight
__________________ Preston P. DuBose 12 to Midnight - Tell yourself it's just a game.
Visit the Midnight Cellar for adventures, maps, tiles, and more.
The staff reviewers at ENWorld have 2-3 month backlogs generally. Send you comp products to them but also send them to Gamewyrd, d20zines, and any other review sites you can find.
Read through ENWorld's non-staff reviews to find a reviewer who seems to like the kind of stuff you do and ask that person if they'll review it. You have WORK to get reviews. You also should consider (though I;ve never tried it) sending review copies out before you release so the lag between first sale and first review is shortened.
Above all, be patient. The reviewers are doing YOU a favor. Not the other way around. Remember that.
__________________ Joe Mucchiello, Head Honcho at Throwing Dice Games
Priority One: Fatherhood.
Priority Two: Sanity.
Down on the list: seemingly real close to releasing a notebook essential. It's in layout! Has been for months now. (Just nod politely so I won't cry about this.)
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Last edited by jmucchiello; 15th August 2003 at 09:38 PM..
Originally posted by jmucchiello The staff reviewers at ENWorld have 2-3 month backlogs generally.
Speaking only for myself, I think part of the problem may be that as a new publisher I simply don't know what my expectations should be. I think if the above statement were on the main d20 System and Reviews page in the Disclaimer box right after "I do not hate your company," I'd have been a lot less anxious over not getting a reply right away. That in turn would have meant fewer pesky follow-up messages to already-busy reviewers.
__________________ Preston P. DuBose 12 to Midnight - Tell yourself it's just a game.
Visit the Midnight Cellar for adventures, maps, tiles, and more.
Tim,
I do reviews at d20 Magazine Rack and I know you sent a link of your new adventure to Steve Creech as I am the lucky guy to review your adventure!
However I just need to finish another review first and then I can get to yours. I will say that I have glanced over it briefly to get an impression of what the pdf is (I wasn't sure if it was a sourcebook or module when I first got the zip file).
So expect one soon at d20 Magazine Rack!
__________________ Duct tape is like the force - it has a light side, a dark side, and holds the universe together.
Tim, I got the e-mail and downloaded the product and have you on my list of things to review. I dropped the ball in replying to you, and I'm sorry for that. I do have a small electronic pile of things to rteview and I'm getting of to a slow start as there was a death in the family the same day I was made reviewer. But I'm not trying to offer up excuses for my error. I will have it reviewed hopefully in a couple of weeks. I'm doing reviews in the order of people contacting me right now until I get a good number of them done. Again, I apologize for not e-mailing you back.
Edit: You can e-mail me any questions or comments you have. I really do try to reply to all e-mail I get. I feel bad that this slipped through the cracks,. so from now on I'm going to be more attentive to my e-mail.
Originally posted by Tim Tellean Morrus, I sent you a copy in July and Crothian a copy when this new website was unveiled and big surprise I got no response from either of you.
I haven't reviewed anything in long, long tiime - I don't do it. Please don't send me review copies - the review system clearly indicates who the reviewers are and who you should send re view copies to; the new PDF site also clear indicates who the staff reviewer is.
As for Crothian - the new site as been in existence for just a few days. If you want a thorough review, you can't expect it within 10 minutes of your sending the review copy.
If you send a review copy to one of the staff reviewers (Crothian for PDFs, or Psion, Simon Collins or Joe Kushner for any product) and don't get a reply within a couple of weeks, feel freee to le tme know. But please leave it a couple of weeks - EVERYONE wants their stuff reviewed by EN World reviewers, and I know that the staff reviewers tend to get overwhelmed by them. I don't know what the situation is with Crothian as he's new, but I imagine that with the launch of the new site, he's received a good few emails.
Crothian, I appreciate your response and let me pass along my condolences. As a husband and father of 2 I know that family is first and foremost and D & D though we may love it fails in comparison. I look forward to your review in the near future.
To Jmuchiello I sent out 15-20 reviewer copies and thanks to this post and a similar one on RPGNet I found a few people that I missed that have asked for reviewer copies, so hopefully this can help us and similar people (12 to Midnight) to understand what the rules (process) is for reviewers.
To Maransreth thanks I look forward to the review, good, bad or indifferent.
I have to say I was hesitant to place the original post but now I am gratified at the response.
However, we've had a heck of a time getting ourselves added to the d20 publisher's list on another part of your site. We've sent a couple e-mails and posted a forum note, but haven't gotten any kind of response. Granted all of this has been since last Friday so it's only been a week. Is there any way to automate the addition of publishers to the list, as you've done with adding reviews?
Yeah, it is a problem. Right now the only person who can add new publishers is the guy who designed the reviews system. I'm hoping he'll add an admin function which allows me to to do that.
Understood. Thanks for the info. We'll just sit tight and work on other PR avenues.
I don't think we'd normally be this anxious over it, but it came as a surprise when our product was only on RPG Now's front page for one week. We're kind-of running around in a panic trying to generate as much additional exposure as we can to compensate. Again a case of expectations not agreeing with reality, and that's nobody's fault but our own.
__________________ Preston P. DuBose 12 to Midnight - Tell yourself it's just a game.
Visit the Midnight Cellar for adventures, maps, tiles, and more.
I'll give you one bit of advice, as far as getting reviews goes. Make sure you find a naysayer to do a review for you someplace, so you have a less than stellar review out there.
Since April, I've been publishing a series of books entitled Big Bang: The Mostly Illustrated RPG Guide to Modern Weapons. Everyone who has bought a copy seems to have been thoroughly satisfied with my work. On RPG.net, the reviews always end up with 5 stars for content and 3 or more stars for presentation. On RPGnow, the books have gotten 8 reviews/comments, 7 of which are 5 stars and the last is 1 star. I will mention that one of the reviewers is a gamer I am vaguely acquainted with through my FLGS.
Amusingly enough, people over on RPG.net seem to be under the impression that I wrote all of the dozen or so reviews that appear between just those two sites, since they can't possibly believe anyone produced a product worthy of always getting high marks. So, if it starts looking like you're getting too many good reviews, find someone to write a bad one.
Originally posted by Dana_Jorgensen I'll give you one bit of advice, as far as getting reviews goes. Make sure you find a naysayer to do a review for you someplace, so you have a less than stellar review out there.
Since April, I've been publishing a series of books entitled Big Bang: The Mostly Illustrated RPG Guide to Modern Weapons. Everyone who has bought a copy seems to have been thoroughly satisfied with my work. On RPG.net, the reviews always end up with 5 stars for content and 3 or more stars for presentation. On RPGnow, the books have gotten 8 reviews/comments, 7 of which are 5 stars and the last is 1 star. I will mention that one of the reviewers is a gamer I am vaguely acquainted with through my FLGS.
Amusingly enough, people over on RPG.net seem to be under the impression that I wrote all of the dozen or so reviews that appear between just those two sites, since they can't possibly believe anyone produced a product worthy of always getting high marks. So, if it starts looking like you're getting too many good reviews, find someone to write a bad one.
No offense, but the situation on RPG.net is quite a bit different than you're making out. And it really didn't have to do with you, but the credibility of the reviewer in question.
The reviewer in question has only reviewed products from you (which always get great praise) or competing gun book products (which always get poor reviews) and also makes statements about those products which apparently aren't true (and apparently never actually bought some of the competing PDF products).
He's written 6 reviews about your products, and the average substance is 5 (out of 5) and 3 reviews of other products (all competing gun books) and they all get a 2.
So it really does seem like the guy happens to be a friend of yours and is trying to help you out. Because why would he only review your stuff? If he just liked gun books, he'd only have reviewed your guns books. But he's reviewed your other stuff as well.
I'm not saying that is the case, I'm just saying there is probably a reason it might look a bit odd to some people.
This does illustrate a good lesson though - you need to find reviewers that have credibility.
A reviewer is only as good as their reputation. Becuase in essense, you're taking their word for it. Anyone can write a flowery review about anything, it's a reviewers judgement that is important.
(I'm not saying that is the case with the Big Bang books, but Mr. Jorgenson would send comp copies to some of his critics and ask for review, it would settle the case. It might be a bit risky, but if his products are really good, then he would be completely vindicated...)
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Well, RPG.net these days isn't known for being as impartial as it was back when the Antunes' owned it. During the course of listening to Sinclair's complaints about reviews not being posted (like I can do anything about that), I was shown the submission confirmation emails. There are a good 50 of them in his inbox, so over 80% of them are rejected for some unknown reason. And my work wasn't the only reviews getting high marks, either. Kind of annoying seeing so many reviews were rejected, considering the way be begged to borrow my gun books one by one.
Now, as for his credibility, I think that the fact that the weapons books I've written have gotten 12 5-star ratings and 1 4-star rating out of 13 reviews should give him a little credibility. Surely 13 out of 13 people can't be wrong about my work. But of course, rather than check all those reviews, there's always the one jerk who seems to keep things going over there, some AOL user, as if that's a surprise.
As for sending comp copies to those "critics", as it currently stands, piracy of those books has cost me about $6,000 in lost sales since April. I don't comp copies to anyone who isn't officially affiliated with a review site at this point.
Dana Jorgensen
Alternate Realities Publications
Author of Big Bang: The Mostly Illustrated RPG Guide to Modern Weapons
The fastest reviewers (only reviewers) for Khan's Press products have been gamingreport.com, and d20zines.com. No other site that I'm aware of that I've sent comp copies to have come through as of yet, and Tremon:Kingdom of Sorcery released last November. These will be the only two sites I'll send review copies to (thanks guys, you rock!!!). That's not entirely true... I'll definately send to Crothian with upcoming titles. EnWorld is an incredible service to the d20 publishing community, and use it every way you can. Especially these messageboards.
Smaller books seem to get reviewed faster. Can any larger companies with more titles back this theory up?
Finally, the biggest effect I find reviewers have is giving the writer sweaty palms. The affect on sales doesn't seem to be there. Promote yourself!!!!
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We only got reviewed by gamingreport.com for our first release Goblin Cave and have responded by advertising with them. They helped us (and were the only ones) so we'll help them. Promotion for the little guys is tough and like a different thread said "Don't quit your day job".
Another thing that will help at least here at EN World is make sure your in the publisher list on the review site and to have all your products listed. My first review isn't posted because the product isn't listed. It's for the Bluffside pdf. I added it to MEG's products but I'm still waiting for it to be added. My next review I specifically found a product that was listed so at least I can start posting reviews.
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