[OT] Buffy - Spoilers within

[Angelsboi]

Well all i can say is good job Joss. Granted the opening made it predictable but he made up for it.

Everything seems to be falling into place. The real world is deffinately the big key here. The doctor was right.

"You used to battle fantastic monsters and now you face 3 ordinary students you went to high school with. No monsters, no gods. Just three pathetic kids."

And we find out that Buffy was in a institution shortly after we see her in Becoming Part I.

"Last summer when you had a moment of awakening, it was them who pulled who pulled you back."

Well now we know Buffy wasnt in heavan but the Real World. The ending was phenominal as we dont know what is real and what isnt. But if we believe that this was to determine who is going to die this season, i think its pointing to Buffy. For good this time.

[Wolfspider]

Wow. Great episode.

[Crothian]

But without really anything from previous episodes to support this I feel cheated. Sure, when she came back from "heaven" they could say that was the real world, but her description of it doesn't really fit. I think that is was a great episode, but I also would expect Josh to lead up to such a big revelation if the hospital world is the real world.

[Wolfspider]

I doubt that this episode will lead anywhere. I don't think Joss would invalidate the whole show by "Bobby Ewing" it away.

However, I do think it's an interesting idea. It certainly fits. I like especially how they were able to tie her death and resurrection into the psychoanalysis. Cool.

[Crothian]

Originally posted by Angelsboi

And we find out that Buffy was in a institution shortly after we see her in Becoming Part I.

Actually, she was in the institution before coming to Sunnydale.

I really liked the rationilizing by the doctor of her delusions and it was an interesting commentary of season six.

[Kamard]

I thought it was silly and pretentious. But then I always think that episodes of shows where they pretend/decide that "the whole series was fake and the main character(s) is crazy" are pretty weak.

[Jamdin]

I liked this episode but I didn't think the asylum was heaven. I lean more towards an alternate dimension instead.

Is it me or has Xander gained some weight?

[Zerovoid]

I was all set up to rip this episode to shreds. I saw the previews for this episode last week and groaned. This has been done before, alot. Regardless, this was the first good episode in a while. Something felt different in the first few minutes. Somehow the interactions between the characters seemed alot better this time, and seeing Spike and Xander talk was very interesting. Much better than Xander just snuggling with Anya all the time. Buffy's life really has been crappy this year, so I can definatley see her wanting to return to an alternate reality. In fact, I was almost surprised that she came back to herself by the episode. I thought Spike was going to have to save the gang this time. This is definately the best episode since Wrecked.

[Ycore Rixle]

I think this episode was written by someone named Diego Gutierrez. Granted I don't follow the show as closely as many, but I would bet that if they were going to introduce a major worldshift, they'd get someone like Marti Noxon, Jane Espenson, David Fury or Joss himself to write it.

Actually, I don't like how the characters are not acting intelligently this season. Willow wants to give Buffy the antidote but then leaves the room with just a casual message to Spike to make sure Buffy drinks it? Seemed contrived and out of character to me. I loved how the characters were intelligent through the first three seasons, more or less in the fifth, and somewhat in the fourth.

And I love Buffy, but I still think that every superhero movie, TV show, novel, or comic book wherein a hero suffers great pains because of his powers should give a credit line to Stan Lee. At least until people start acknowledging his huge influence on late 20th century literature.

[Crothian]

THis show does a lot of things that have been done before, countless times by movies and other shows. BtVS just tries to do it differently. That's why I like the show and never pre-judge it.

[Angelsboi]

Crothian -

reread my statement.

In Becoming Part 1, we see her being taught by Merrick when Angel is watching her. Joyce and Hank were fighting in the house. She was at Hemery High. NOT in Sunnydale. Meaning shortly after her fight with the vampire in the Becoming Part 1 flashback, she was instatutinalized.

And now that i think about it, her mom was OVERLY shocked at the end of season 2. Look at Buffys behavior. Brning down school Gyms, Snyder always riding her about her being a trouble maker ...

Everyone knew (Joyce, the principals, maybe even Giles) but she never told her friends ... or even Angel.

[Crothian]

Okay, I understand what you're saying. When I first read it it sounded as if you were stating it happened in between episodes of season 2.

Personally, I don't think the institution world exists anywhere but Buffy's mind.

[el-remmen]

I don't think this excellent episode was trying to suggest that everything we have seen for six seasons was "not real" - in fact, just the opposite. . .

In the end the "fantasy world" was the real world - a place where our dead or estranged loved ones are there unconditionally, the things we have the greatest responsibility for no longer exist (being the Slayer, taking care of Dawn) and we are allowed a fresh start away from painful or tragic relationships (Spike, Xander and his break up) and of course, escape from our crappy jobs at the Double Meat Palace.

In the end Buffy was rejecting the fantasy that was keeping her from doing the work she needs to do to improve her life - the idea that somehow everything was going to be just fine on its own.

Anyway, if one must take the thing literally (which one shouldn't) the fact that there were scenes in the "vampire world" independent of Buffy's presence where the venom and the demon and her reaction were discussed verifies that at the very least these were two parallel worlds with Buffy at the crux - but I don't buy that.

[Angelsboi]

Oh i agree completely.

Buffy just needed reasurrance =)

[sotmh]

AB, I don't think we'll see Buffy end up in the "Real World" at the end of the show. That's been done way too many times, see "Newhart" and "Dallas" for some examples (IIRC). Plus, where would that leave the spin-off series'?

It was a good episode, nonetheless. Buffy really needed something to snap her out of the funk that she's been in lately. Kudos to last weeks episode for the unexpected yet logical ending. I still just want to smack Xander around for leaving Anya like that and he's just starting to understand what he's done, but he still doesn't see the full ramifications of his stupidity (beyond the whole vengeance demon thing, I mean). Things between Anya and him can never be the same. It's tragic.

I will make one prediction regarding the show, though. I think, at the end of the series or season, Buffy will end up with Jonathon. It makes so much sense. Especially after this season, Buffy is in about the same place in her life as the little guy. Plus, since we know Joss is kind of a geek, it's not a stretch to speculate that he might "get the girl" in the end.

sotmh

[Crothian]

That's an interesting thought. So, anyone know what's going to happen next?


This is my opinion on what will happen next. I don't have any advanced knowledge. Just wanted to say that just in case someone thought I was posting unmarked spoilers. I think we'll get an episode of Anya seeking vengeance on Xander. I think that Tar will get killed by Warren, Willow will snap and use great magics to torture and kill Warren. Then Willow will become bad (I think Big Bad is not the proper term as there is no Big Bad. We're to late in the season for that). She will be hard, if not impossible to stop or reason with. I give her a couple of free Rage Mage levels

[coyote6]

Originally posted by Crothian
This is my opinion on what will happen next. I don't have any advanced knowledge.

Are you sure you haven't been reading the Spoiler Slayer?

[Crothian]

Originally posted by coyote6


Are you sure you haven't been reading the Spoiler Slayer?

I don't read spoilers. Why, am I close?

The seasons are ussually predictible with the main plots and this is how i see it happening. Tar has always been a lesser character and is expendible. Warren is the most evil of the group, and it's only a matter of time before he really tries to kill someone. I'm betting it's Tara. Probably fails to kill Buffy and gets Tara instead, like the accident with the Invisible gun. So, with Tara dead Willow goes Balistic and uses the only thing she has: Magic. Only reason she hasn't been using Magic is to get Tara back. Stopping Warren isn't enough, and neither is killing him. So, I expect Torture. And that won't sit well with the other Scoobies. They will of course try to reason with Willow first, but we know that won;t work. Willow, with all her power may be impossible to stop. Last time she lost control (when Tara was injured so that supports the Willow Rage after Tara dies) she was the only one to hurt Glory. This time the angry will be greater and the rage will be worse.

As for the Anya taking Vengeance on Xander, franly I've been expecting that since they went to the prom together. And after the Wedding epsiode is there really anyone who thinks this will not happen?

Edit: Dump Mistake

[Magnus]

in the midst of all of this "i love this episode" stuff, i gotta say. i was and continue to be disappointed with this season. and this episode was no exception. i've always enjoyed buffy ... well, at least since i started watching about 2 years ago. but this season has felt cheap, and a bit too contrived for my tastes.

it feels like the writers sit around and brainstorm about what else they can do to %@$# up buffy's life this week. other than severe emotional trauma, there doesn't really seem to be any cohesion to this season. and while i'm at it, what the hell is up with all the sex on the show! this season there's been more sex than on the rest of prime time tv combined! i mean, buffy and riley used to get it on, but we were never shown this much of it! i can't help wondering how much of this is the doing of UPN.

as for this ep, it just seemed like more of the same. if it wasn't for the occasional quirkiness of the characters, and the lil gems of direction and acting, i'd really hate this ep. the speech by buffy's mom that brings her back, is a perfect example. it was very transparent, but the way it was executed still managed to tug the heartstrings.

i don't buy all of this about the psych ward is the "real" world. what, the demon's venom caused her to see the truth, when it causes hallucinations in everyone else? no. it's just another one in a string of brutalisations to buffy's psyche. perhaps the one that brings back her strength, but still, just another in the string.

it's disappointing that it seems that this once great show has lost some of the attention of it's creators. Angel on the other hand, has gotten positively BRILLIANT this season. while buffy just seems to be losing cohesion. as the "big bad" of this season, the real world, or adulthood. or growing up, or whatever it's supposed to be, is really disappointing.

all of that said, i still do like the show. perhaps it's mostly just nostalgic at this point, but i'll continue to watch. i just was not really impressed with this ep, as most of you seem to be. *shrug*

[LostSoul]

Originally posted by Magnus
as the "big bad" of this season, the real world, or adulthood. or growing up, or whatever it's supposed to be, is really disappointing.

That's weird, I feel the opposite way. I felt like the show was becoming "bad guy shows up - they worry about it - Buffy beats it up anyways". Remember that, in the end, Buffy still "beat up" Glory.

This season is saying to Buffy that she can't just solve every problem with physical violence. Sometimes the problems are deeper.