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I mentioned this in the current General Discussion thread, but I think it is a big enough concern to deserve its own thread. Currently, we use a format that looks much like this:
Name Pronounciation Nicknames
Deity Status Symbol: Home Plane: Alignment: Portfolio: Worshippers: Cleric Alignments: Domains: Favored Weapon:
Does anyone think we should switch to the XPH/CD format, which is:
Name Deity Status (Alignment) Description, with paragraphs on worshipers, symbol, (potentially home plane) and favored weapon.
Portfolio: Domains: Cleric Training: (Potentially Cleric Alignments) Quests: Prayers:
Temples:
Rites:
Herald and Allies: The herald is the kind of creature a deity sends to the material plane when it needs to intervene in mortal affairs, usually a CR 13-15; Allies are those creatures usually sent as planar allies, as per the spell chain.
I can see a few problems with switching formats, one of which is the varying amount of detail given the gods, which range from low (Hyrag) to extreme (Jareth).
There is also the question of home planes. Currently, Enworld has no set planar cosmology. Many gods have been assigned to standard planes of the Great Wheel. Since the Great Wheel is not in the SRD, I would argue that we need a different cosmology, but keep is "wheel-shaped".
I attached a file that lists the currently approved deities.
A potential planar setup, a bit "wheely", a bit odd:
A ring of Elemental planes (Air-Fire-Earth-Water-Air, with the appropriate in-between planes). The Material Plane is the "center" of the ring. From each plane, "whirls" of elemental power tainted with positive/negative energy "drop" to:
The Energy Plane, a combination of Positive and Negative Energy plane. Within this plane, streams of one energy "chase" and move the Center (maybe enormous citadels) of the other energy. Streams that hit the Center move it, and are converted into the opposing energy (think ying-yan). A stream of matter connects this to:
The Outer Planes. Nine planes, one for each alignment (the stream of matter could turn into a mountain/pillar on the N plane). Each plane has some common themes, and maybe some kind of "entry layer", but several (possibly infinite) layers that can be reached by wanting to travel there. Layers farther from the common layers have less interest in Enworld, and turn progressively stranger.
Hey, Knight OTU, could you expound on that cosmology a bit? I know it makes sense to you, but when I try to visualize it, I see several "centers" (either that, or the Material Plane is getting blasted by streams of matter from every which way!)
So, I think you've got the EnWorld disk in the center, with an energy "ring" around it, and "below" that the "energy plane". Streams "drop" from the ring to the "energy plane", which looks (from "above", from the direction of the materal plane) like a big yin-yang symbol. There's a "positive dot" in the midst of the negative part of the plane, and a "negative dot" in the midst of the positive part of the plane, again, just like a yin-yang symbol. And each "dot" is a "citadel" or adventure location, or at least something a little more defined than just "swirls of energy".
First, does that make sense and seem close to how you visualize the material, elemental, and energy planes? If so, what is the ENWorphant "walking" on? Nothing? The energy plane? Another part of the material plane? Just trying to visualize all this.
Second, how are the outer planes oriented? "Outside" of the elemental planes? Or "outside" of (surrounding) the energy plane? Or does it even matter? Finally, where is the neutral plane? It would seem to make sense that it is somehow "between" all the outer planes, but it seems like all the real estate "between" the outer planes is spoken for. Or maybe the ENWorphant "walks" on the neutral plane...
Anyway, this is a discussion that's been dormant for a long time, and since sooner or later someone's going to want to run an EnWorld "planar" adventure, I thought it would be good to ressurrect it.
Don't put too much weight on the belows and aboves - while they describe the setup as though it were 3d, that is not the case. The material plane, with ENWorld, is the uppermost, surrounded by the elemental ring. If this has a visual effect on the Material plane, it is propably on the stars in "proximity" of the elemental planes, and on whatever zodiak Enworld has.
"Beneath" the elemental ring, is the energy plane.
The Outer Planar setup is a lot like the Great Wheel we all know, except the number of planes. The neutral plane lies in the center, and this is where the stream of matter turns up from the energy plane. As I mentioned, it might turn into a pillar or mountain a la the Spire in the Outlands, but that may be too much "quoting".
The outer planes might have an infinite amount of layers, as I mentioned, with less and less interest in the material plane (or ability to reach it). The farthest of these layers might be used as the Far Realms or their equivalent.
Here's a small ugly diagram that I hope helps visualizing the whole thing a bit better (gray e is the Ethereal. Blue s is Shadow):
Actually, that all answers things quite nicely, with one exception: What is the EnWorphant "walking" on? If the answer is the energy plane, then I'm ready to declare victory and say we have a cosmology concept.
That is a good question... technically, it walks through the cosmos, somehow. I'm not sure how it would walk "on" the energy plane (following one of the citadels?)... and what consequences that would have.
Well, now that you mention it, I suppose it could walk "in" the Astral plane, which to my mind would be a sort of "walking through the cosmos". I guess that makes sense to me, since I recall there's a bit of EnWorld lore that anyone falling off the world disk will wind up in another plane. At the least, that person would end up in the Astral plane, and with a little luck could find themselves on either the Energy plane or one of the Outer planes.
There are basically two options to hopefully increase the number of comments. I can call for attention in the thread title, or I ask for this thread to be ignored (always a surefire way to get someone to look). I think I'll go the first route for now.
I really have no big ideas on how the whole "cosmology" thing should be configured, but I do like the idea the the ENWorphant is travelling through the Astral Plane, with a big pocket of the Material Plane on his back.
There are basically two options to hopefully increase the number of comments. I can call for attention in the thread title, or I ask for this thread to be ignored (always a surefire way to get someone to look). I think I'll go the first route for now.
I'm not really sure about the Cosmology, as I'm just a newcomer here, but if you want this thread to get more views, perhaps we should have two people get into a flame war and then lock the thread after another page or so of posts. If you then change the title to say "Locked Due to Inappropriate Conduct" or something, that will probably draw lots of attention, but whatever you do, don't sticky it
All you have to do is lock the thread and people will read over it time and time again trying to figure out why
While, I've never been a fan of the Worphant, I thing the rest of the setup looks good, Will we need to come up with new names for all these equivalants
Will we need to come up with new names for all these equivalants
Hmm. I would hope not. For example, especially seeing as how we've adapted and changed the planar structure that is given in the DMG, I'd think that names like "Astral Plane" and "Outer Planes" would fall under fair use.
The discussion is on the Cosmology, not on how to get a better discussion started - but locking this thread is a surefire way to prevent more posts to it.
The only things we need to name are the nine outer planes, but those names can be more or less generic (individual layers could be named on later occasions, by DMs needing them, or in proposals). Everything else can keep the names we know, or go with simple descriptive names (such as, if we use the idea of citadels on the energy plane, those would be the Positive and Negative Citadel, respectively).
This whole planar layout thing really interests me, it's this sort of raw, completely undone stuff that makes LEW so cool.
I've been mulling things over in my head about the planes, and I've found that the Great Wheel model is kind of difficult to... change too much from, if you know what I mean. But I love the idea of the swirling, ying-yang energy planes. Now, if I understand correctly, the +/- energy planes are on the same "level" as each other and rotate about the center of Enworld, which (according to the map I have obtained from God knows where) is actually Orussus.
Now, on the map I have, the energy towers are east and west, but I read something somewhere saying that they have been relocated to north and south. This, combined with the swirling ying-yang energy plane inspired me with what I think is... a neat idea. I don't know how set-in-stone the tower locations are as of today, but I don't think any adventures have taken place there, so they should be fairly alterable still. Anyway! My idea is this:
There are the four elemental towers, Water in the NW, Earth in the NE, Fire in the SE, and Wind in the SW. Then there are four 'neutral' towers at each of the cardinal directions, N S E and W. The eternal swirling of the ying-yang of the energy planes 'underneath' the material plane 'shine up' through these 'neutral' towers. When the large positive portion of the energy plane is beneath a neutral tower, it shines gold or white, and when the small dot of negative energy is present, there could be a sort of eclipse, and vice versa. The areas around these towers could be extremely volatile, deserts one day and jungles the next. Depending on how fast we want the rotation to go, this could possibly explain night and day or the seasons of the Enworld without a solar system.
This is still in raw unedited form, but I think it warrants discussion. And maybe it'll bring life back to this dead thread.
You have a map where the Energy Towers are East-West? I'd like to see that map. The map scetch I have has it as North-South, which was the original arrangement. Goblin King temporarily relocated them, but the official stance is that they are the North-South "poles". For example, I have used stuff like "(hasten) the journey southwards" as an euphemism for death and killing. I'm not sure if other DMs used that idea, though.
I do kind of like your idea, but I'm not sure how feasible it is.
Ok. I was going to try to sum up the information in this thread for the location recompilation thread, and it was just too confusing. We've got a lot of good ideas here, but we haven't expressed them as a coherent whole.
So, I poured over the material here, and decided to take a stab at a more detailed drawing of the EnWorld Cosmos. It will readily be apparent that I'm no great artist, especially not with MSPaint. But, it's better than nothing, and maybe it'll help revive this discussion. What I've attempted is a summary of all the ideas in this thread.
Some notes:
The EnWorphant is not shown. He/She/It (remember, the EnWorphant is androgynous) is "underneath" the Prime Material Plane. The Ethereal Plane and the Plane of Shadow "surround" the Prime Material, at a "closer" distance than the elemental planes, and are likewise also not shown. Everything on this page that is not marked is part of the Astral Plane...it just goes everywhere. The Energy planes are not a static ying-yang symbol, rather, the citadels are constantly getting pushed around, both by energy beams from "above" and "below", and by the "hostile" matter in the opposite energy plane. The energy beams that emerge from the "bottom" of the citadels that go to the neutral plane form large "ropes" of energy, one positive and one negative. Not far "below" the Energy Planes, these "ropes" intertwine. I didn't show that well, mainly because I can't draw.
I guess if there's a Sigil or something like it atop the "Energy Spire" in the Neutral Plane, it's in the shape of a doughnut (torus). Well, it has to have a hole in the middle for the energy to get through, right?
Linear Mode
