The ramblings of a Boston area gamer
Session 5 - Keep on the Shadowfell
Potential spoilers for Keep on the Shadowfell herein.
We had a couple of weeks where we didn't meet. We return for our 5th session exploring the Keep on the Shadowfell. In attendance:
* me - DM
* Kevin - half-elf paladin
* Dave - tiefling warlock
* Ed - human cleric
* Bob - human fighter
Dave and I cover several topics on the way to Kevin's. Dave feels that 4E lends itself to meta-gaming. When in combat he finds himself planning his actions based on his abilities rather than what his character would do. I thought this was an interesting comment as I feel that Dave meta-games the hell out of attacks of opportunity in 3E. I suspect he's right. I'll need to watch the others as we play.
Dave is a collector. I think that, part of the reason Dave was predisposed to not liking 4E is that he doesn't want to collect (or recollect) the 4E books. He has a huge collection of 3E stuff (as well as AD&D). He tells me he has no plans on buying any more books than the first core ones. I too, built up a fairly large 3E collection (thank you eBay). I'm also reluctant to go back down that path. I kept adding one thing from this book and another thing from another book to my campaign rules. It was starting to become unwieldy. I tell Dave my plan is to stick to the first core plus the FRPG. Realistically, I expect to add either the PHB 2 or the Advanced Players Guide to get 4E versions of the barbarian, bard and druid (my game feels incomplete without them). I personally have no intention of picking up anything else (monster books and adventures don't count).
Dave's final 3E vs 4E point is that he feels that the skills have been too streamlined in 4E. This makes characters too similar when it comes to skills. Instead of a rogue being good at certain rogue skills (say open locks) and weak in others (say pick pockets) whereas another rogue would be week and strong in the opposite skills (pick pockets and open locks respectively). It makes all rogues equally (roughly) skilled. I was streamlining some of the 3E skills but I'm thinking that 4E took it a little too far. I'm going to stick to the rules as is for a while before tweaking.
The group leaves the dug up room, lights a torch and heads down a set of stairs they previously passed. At the bottom they find a natural cave where in certain areas stalagmites and stalactites make movement difficult. Bob moves away from the rest of the party. The giant rats living in the cave decide to make a meal of him and attack. The rest of the party moves in to fend off the vermin. The sound of battle attracts an ochre jelly. "What the hell is that?" I have the those who want make a Nature check to determine what the creature is. Several bad rolls later, Kevin's paladin shouts to the others, "It's an ooze, we probably disturbed it as it's not intelligent enough to want to hurt us for malicious reasons." I know knowledge checks to know monster information was introduced in 3E but the lore you glean in 4E seems more interesting. A big plus is that you do not get the specific strengths and weaknesses of the creature. I'm a little surprised there wasn't a check to determine the type of ooze you're dealing with. I figure you make the minimum check you know the ooze your dealing with. We all enjoyed the "oh sh@@" moment when the ocher jelly became bloodied and split in two. I made the two halves medium sized. It would have been good to get a guideline of the post-split size of the creature. The threat is soon eliminated and the party takes a short rest. (I later read how these monster checks are supposed to tell you the specific strengths and weakness of the creatures not just the lore in the MM. I think I'm going to stick with given the players just the lore while giving them hints about its strength and weaknesses if they role the appropriate number.)
The group explores the caves and finds a set of double doors. Beyond are stairs leading down to a mostly flooded room. The PCs notice a small island covered with coins and other things. The fighter jumps across. He is quite surprised when a blue slime emerges from the brackish water and sprays everyone with acid. This fight was most enjoyable. I rolled really well on the recharge power. I kept finding a power I missed initially which I would use on the next round. It was a rough battle but the party won.
I never checked the rules for ongoing damage when hit by multiple attacks. I had some of the PCs taking 10 ongoing acid for a round or two. I did give them the choice of rolling one save for all the damage or two which each one reducing the damage by 5. (I would later discover that ongoing effects don't stack; that you use only the highest amount.)
The blue slime sprayed everyone with acid during its death throws (one of its abilities) which took out the cleric (and Bob's fighter). Kevin's paladin and Dave's warlock go to aid Ed's cleric. Bob chimes in, "what happens when you're at 0 hit points?" We tell him he's dying. I have him make a death save as the rest of the party was focused on the cleric (he's in the negatives but stable). He fails. We continue in initiative order. Dave jumps across and Kevin attempts to swim to the island. Dave fails his healing check and Kevin fails his swim check. Bob fails he 2nd death save. Dave again fails his healing check while Kevin tries to jump across and fails. Bob fails his third death save and his fighter dies. The party settles in for an extended rest and we call it a night.
At the end of the session I put it out there to see if the group wants to continue with 4E (I want to see if I should invest in the FRCG). Basically, do they want me to continue run a 4E campaign? Both Kevin and Ed enthusiastically say yes. I didn't catch what Bob said and I knew Dave's answer.
At this point it looks like I'll be running 4E for the foreseeable future. During my talks with Dave, I realize I'm going to try and keep the books I use in any campaign I run to a minimum. In the event I go back to 3E to run a campaign (instead of 3E the Pathfinder RPG is more likely), its going to be core + Player's Guide to Faerun only (with some house rules stolen from 4E).
We had a couple of weeks where we didn't meet. We return for our 5th session exploring the Keep on the Shadowfell. In attendance:
* me - DM
* Kevin - half-elf paladin
* Dave - tiefling warlock
* Ed - human cleric
* Bob - human fighter
Dave and I cover several topics on the way to Kevin's. Dave feels that 4E lends itself to meta-gaming. When in combat he finds himself planning his actions based on his abilities rather than what his character would do. I thought this was an interesting comment as I feel that Dave meta-games the hell out of attacks of opportunity in 3E. I suspect he's right. I'll need to watch the others as we play.
Dave is a collector. I think that, part of the reason Dave was predisposed to not liking 4E is that he doesn't want to collect (or recollect) the 4E books. He has a huge collection of 3E stuff (as well as AD&D). He tells me he has no plans on buying any more books than the first core ones. I too, built up a fairly large 3E collection (thank you eBay). I'm also reluctant to go back down that path. I kept adding one thing from this book and another thing from another book to my campaign rules. It was starting to become unwieldy. I tell Dave my plan is to stick to the first core plus the FRPG. Realistically, I expect to add either the PHB 2 or the Advanced Players Guide to get 4E versions of the barbarian, bard and druid (my game feels incomplete without them). I personally have no intention of picking up anything else (monster books and adventures don't count).
Dave's final 3E vs 4E point is that he feels that the skills have been too streamlined in 4E. This makes characters too similar when it comes to skills. Instead of a rogue being good at certain rogue skills (say open locks) and weak in others (say pick pockets) whereas another rogue would be week and strong in the opposite skills (pick pockets and open locks respectively). It makes all rogues equally (roughly) skilled. I was streamlining some of the 3E skills but I'm thinking that 4E took it a little too far. I'm going to stick to the rules as is for a while before tweaking.
The group leaves the dug up room, lights a torch and heads down a set of stairs they previously passed. At the bottom they find a natural cave where in certain areas stalagmites and stalactites make movement difficult. Bob moves away from the rest of the party. The giant rats living in the cave decide to make a meal of him and attack. The rest of the party moves in to fend off the vermin. The sound of battle attracts an ochre jelly. "What the hell is that?" I have the those who want make a Nature check to determine what the creature is. Several bad rolls later, Kevin's paladin shouts to the others, "It's an ooze, we probably disturbed it as it's not intelligent enough to want to hurt us for malicious reasons." I know knowledge checks to know monster information was introduced in 3E but the lore you glean in 4E seems more interesting. A big plus is that you do not get the specific strengths and weaknesses of the creature. I'm a little surprised there wasn't a check to determine the type of ooze you're dealing with. I figure you make the minimum check you know the ooze your dealing with. We all enjoyed the "oh sh@@" moment when the ocher jelly became bloodied and split in two. I made the two halves medium sized. It would have been good to get a guideline of the post-split size of the creature. The threat is soon eliminated and the party takes a short rest. (I later read how these monster checks are supposed to tell you the specific strengths and weakness of the creatures not just the lore in the MM. I think I'm going to stick with given the players just the lore while giving them hints about its strength and weaknesses if they role the appropriate number.)
The group explores the caves and finds a set of double doors. Beyond are stairs leading down to a mostly flooded room. The PCs notice a small island covered with coins and other things. The fighter jumps across. He is quite surprised when a blue slime emerges from the brackish water and sprays everyone with acid. This fight was most enjoyable. I rolled really well on the recharge power. I kept finding a power I missed initially which I would use on the next round. It was a rough battle but the party won.
I never checked the rules for ongoing damage when hit by multiple attacks. I had some of the PCs taking 10 ongoing acid for a round or two. I did give them the choice of rolling one save for all the damage or two which each one reducing the damage by 5. (I would later discover that ongoing effects don't stack; that you use only the highest amount.)
The blue slime sprayed everyone with acid during its death throws (one of its abilities) which took out the cleric (and Bob's fighter). Kevin's paladin and Dave's warlock go to aid Ed's cleric. Bob chimes in, "what happens when you're at 0 hit points?" We tell him he's dying. I have him make a death save as the rest of the party was focused on the cleric (he's in the negatives but stable). He fails. We continue in initiative order. Dave jumps across and Kevin attempts to swim to the island. Dave fails his healing check and Kevin fails his swim check. Bob fails he 2nd death save. Dave again fails his healing check while Kevin tries to jump across and fails. Bob fails his third death save and his fighter dies. The party settles in for an extended rest and we call it a night.
At the end of the session I put it out there to see if the group wants to continue with 4E (I want to see if I should invest in the FRCG). Basically, do they want me to continue run a 4E campaign? Both Kevin and Ed enthusiastically say yes. I didn't catch what Bob said and I knew Dave's answer.
At this point it looks like I'll be running 4E for the foreseeable future. During my talks with Dave, I realize I'm going to try and keep the books I use in any campaign I run to a minimum. In the event I go back to 3E to run a campaign (instead of 3E the Pathfinder RPG is more likely), its going to be core + Player's Guide to Faerun only (with some house rules stolen from 4E).
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