The ramblings of a Boston area gamer
Keep on the Shadowfell - Session 7
Posted 5th November 2008 at 03:29 PM by Elodan
Potential spoilers for Keep on the Shadowfell herein.
A summary of our 7th session exploring the Keep on the Shadowfell. In attendance:
* me - DM
* Kevin - half-elf paladin
* Dave - tiefling warlock
* Ed - human cleric
* Bob - human fighter
An aside for a personal rant. This session occurred not too long after the release of the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (FRPG). I wasn't too happy with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide as it seemed to leave out a lot basic information (the 3E FRCS it one of my all time favorite WotC books so I know I'm biased). For example, in the Luruar section of the FRCS under Settlements and Features it says "Luruar’s major settlements are Silverymoon, Sundabar, and Everlund." There is no information given on Sundabar. This is a major settlement and this is the campaign guide. Why is there not even a paragraph with generalities about the city? I don't need every hamlet detailed but a brief paragraph on a major city would be nice. Then, within a week of the FRPG coming out, the DDI had an article for more Epic Destinies to use in the Realms (Epic Faerun). Finally, the the FRPG had nothing on Returned Abeir (which I thought was one of the selling points of the new version of the Realms). I feel like these were purposely left out to get me to invest in the DDI (or more books). More and more I feel like 4E is incomplete. Want alchemy, buy the Adventurer's Vault. Want X, it's on the DDI. WotC is a business and they want to make profit, I get that. But, you're not endearing me to your new system by nickel and dime-ing me.
I'll admit, at this time I'm starting to sour on 4E a bit because of this.
Last we left off, the group has been discovered as intruders and the hobgoblin guards are attacking. The party is lined up in pairs on the stairs leading into this chamber. Several guards move up to attack while a few others move into a chamber opposite the party. One of the hobgoblin abilities is 'phalanx fighting' and they get pluses to defenses when adjacent to each other. Four of the creatures form a line at the bottom of the stair to prevent the heroes from entering the chamber (and to take full advantage of their ability). The defenders (fighter and paladin) are in front with the striker (warlock) and leader (cleric) in back. There's some discussion as to whether or not corners provide cover. We look it up and find that it does for ranged attacks but not for melee. [It's still a session or two before I drop the allies provide cover so my strikers are -2 to hit the hobgoblins in the first row. Fortunately, because they're on the high ground (the upper end of the stairs) there are a log of other bad guys in the room they can hit without penalties.] The party is having a somewhat difficult time hitting the hobgoblins as their phalanx ability has improved their normal defenses. It's a slugfest. A few rounds into the battle, the group finds out what the hobgoblins who left the room were up to when a deathjump spider joins the fray. The spider has an ability that lets it shift 6 squares (a "jump"). I have it uses this ability to leap onto the wall over the stairs. It manages to take the fighter down before the warlock eventually kills it. The cleric heals the fighter and eventually, the group wins. They explore the area and find some bunking in some side chambers but not much else.
The continue exploring and find a side passage that leads to what appears to be a dining area. As they move down the passage to explore the area, a portcullis drops from the ceiling trapping the fighter and cleric in the room. Hobgoblins emerge from several doors to attack. The hobgoblin soldiers end up closer to the trapped PCs and have initiative so they form a line and attack. Essentially, my minions are stuck in the 2nd row with no means of attacking the heroes. The paladin makes a strength check and jams the portcullis back into the ceiling. The cleric gladly switches places with the paladin. This fight becomes static with both sides whacking at each other. I know combat in 4E is supposed to be dynamic but I see no reason why the hobgoblins would move away from each other and negate their phalanx fighting ability. The PCs didn't want to try and push through the hobgoblins as they might get surrounded; plus the corridor give them the ability to limit the number of enemies they face at once. Eventually, the heroes wear down and defeat the hobgoblins.
Again, not sure if its our 3E thinking or the nature of the battles but, for the most part, our combats haven't been all that dynamic. The defenders have been staking their territory and, for lack of a better term, 'defending' it. The strikers move around to get good position but that's no different than in 3E. It's not like forced movement isn't used in our games, I'm not sure if it's all it seems have been hyped up to be. I think 3E Bull Rush was more fun (not necessarily the math, but you didn't necessarily know what was going to happen). It seems like combats are starting to drag out some. There appears to be a point where you know the PCs are going to win but you're bad guys still have a lot of hit points left. Things become a slugfest. Especially when the PCs are out of encounter and/or daily powers. I guess I could have them run away or double the amount of damage they take with each hit but that feels cheap. Plus, there's still the possibility that my bad guys could do some real damage to the PCs (and I hate to miss out of those opportunities
). Combats in 3E were often too short and it seems like 4E combats might be too long.
At this point, I'm going to continue running KotS as the guys want to finish and we should able to complete it in a couple of more sessions. Plus I want to get a feel for things as the PCs gain levels. I'm not sure if it's my issues with the 4E FR books that are clouding my judgment but I'm starting to think 4E is not a huge improvement on 3E.
A summary of our 7th session exploring the Keep on the Shadowfell. In attendance:
* me - DM
* Kevin - half-elf paladin
* Dave - tiefling warlock
* Ed - human cleric
* Bob - human fighter
An aside for a personal rant. This session occurred not too long after the release of the Forgotten Realms Player's Guide (FRPG). I wasn't too happy with the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide as it seemed to leave out a lot basic information (the 3E FRCS it one of my all time favorite WotC books so I know I'm biased). For example, in the Luruar section of the FRCS under Settlements and Features it says "Luruar’s major settlements are Silverymoon, Sundabar, and Everlund." There is no information given on Sundabar. This is a major settlement and this is the campaign guide. Why is there not even a paragraph with generalities about the city? I don't need every hamlet detailed but a brief paragraph on a major city would be nice. Then, within a week of the FRPG coming out, the DDI had an article for more Epic Destinies to use in the Realms (Epic Faerun). Finally, the the FRPG had nothing on Returned Abeir (which I thought was one of the selling points of the new version of the Realms). I feel like these were purposely left out to get me to invest in the DDI (or more books). More and more I feel like 4E is incomplete. Want alchemy, buy the Adventurer's Vault. Want X, it's on the DDI. WotC is a business and they want to make profit, I get that. But, you're not endearing me to your new system by nickel and dime-ing me.
I'll admit, at this time I'm starting to sour on 4E a bit because of this.
Last we left off, the group has been discovered as intruders and the hobgoblin guards are attacking. The party is lined up in pairs on the stairs leading into this chamber. Several guards move up to attack while a few others move into a chamber opposite the party. One of the hobgoblin abilities is 'phalanx fighting' and they get pluses to defenses when adjacent to each other. Four of the creatures form a line at the bottom of the stair to prevent the heroes from entering the chamber (and to take full advantage of their ability). The defenders (fighter and paladin) are in front with the striker (warlock) and leader (cleric) in back. There's some discussion as to whether or not corners provide cover. We look it up and find that it does for ranged attacks but not for melee. [It's still a session or two before I drop the allies provide cover so my strikers are -2 to hit the hobgoblins in the first row. Fortunately, because they're on the high ground (the upper end of the stairs) there are a log of other bad guys in the room they can hit without penalties.] The party is having a somewhat difficult time hitting the hobgoblins as their phalanx ability has improved their normal defenses. It's a slugfest. A few rounds into the battle, the group finds out what the hobgoblins who left the room were up to when a deathjump spider joins the fray. The spider has an ability that lets it shift 6 squares (a "jump"). I have it uses this ability to leap onto the wall over the stairs. It manages to take the fighter down before the warlock eventually kills it. The cleric heals the fighter and eventually, the group wins. They explore the area and find some bunking in some side chambers but not much else.
The continue exploring and find a side passage that leads to what appears to be a dining area. As they move down the passage to explore the area, a portcullis drops from the ceiling trapping the fighter and cleric in the room. Hobgoblins emerge from several doors to attack. The hobgoblin soldiers end up closer to the trapped PCs and have initiative so they form a line and attack. Essentially, my minions are stuck in the 2nd row with no means of attacking the heroes. The paladin makes a strength check and jams the portcullis back into the ceiling. The cleric gladly switches places with the paladin. This fight becomes static with both sides whacking at each other. I know combat in 4E is supposed to be dynamic but I see no reason why the hobgoblins would move away from each other and negate their phalanx fighting ability. The PCs didn't want to try and push through the hobgoblins as they might get surrounded; plus the corridor give them the ability to limit the number of enemies they face at once. Eventually, the heroes wear down and defeat the hobgoblins.
Again, not sure if its our 3E thinking or the nature of the battles but, for the most part, our combats haven't been all that dynamic. The defenders have been staking their territory and, for lack of a better term, 'defending' it. The strikers move around to get good position but that's no different than in 3E. It's not like forced movement isn't used in our games, I'm not sure if it's all it seems have been hyped up to be. I think 3E Bull Rush was more fun (not necessarily the math, but you didn't necessarily know what was going to happen). It seems like combats are starting to drag out some. There appears to be a point where you know the PCs are going to win but you're bad guys still have a lot of hit points left. Things become a slugfest. Especially when the PCs are out of encounter and/or daily powers. I guess I could have them run away or double the amount of damage they take with each hit but that feels cheap. Plus, there's still the possibility that my bad guys could do some real damage to the PCs (and I hate to miss out of those opportunities
). Combats in 3E were often too short and it seems like 4E combats might be too long. At this point, I'm going to continue running KotS as the guys want to finish and we should able to complete it in a couple of more sessions. Plus I want to get a feel for things as the PCs gain levels. I'm not sure if it's my issues with the 4E FR books that are clouding my judgment but I'm starting to think 4E is not a huge improvement on 3E.
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