Finally got to play Race for the Galaxy yesterday. Very fond of it! I also played San Juan for the first time last week, which was good but I wasn't especially taken with. The similarities between the two games really are quite striking (if you didn't know, Race for the Galaxy was sort of a proto-San Juan, they held a contest for San Juan and RftG was one of the entries which didn't win).
I've really only got two gripes with it.
1. It seems kind of inelegant to me that it's almost a pure card game, except for the victory tokens. They play such a relatively minor role in the game that I would have liked it if they could have just designed the game to use nothing but cards.
2. The box is hueg liek Xbox. Most over-packaged game I've seen since Poison.
Other than those two issues, though, it was really cool. I was worried about the theme a bit, which is odd since I vastly prefer sci-fi to historical. I think I'm just too much in the anti-Sci-Fi mindset which pervades Eurogames. But the theme works really well, and it was awesome in the first game when my home planet was New Sparta. You can be sure lots of jokes were made about the game being madness.
I've played lots and lots and lots of San Juan. It is an excellent game, and one that I appreciate greatly. There are a lot of subtleties in how it plays.
Race was designed as an alternative San Juan (it is actually a branch from when they were designing SJ). It does a lot of cool things, but is less interactive than SJ. I haven't played it that much yet, so there's still a *lot* to explore in it. Military has dominated in the games I've played, although I know there are other good strategies.
We only played it twice. In the first game, as New Sparta I won with a military- and development-heavy strategy with 35 points (second place was two people tied with 29).
The second game, coincidentally the person who got New Sparta won, but didn't do much militarily at all. He won largely because of an impressive production strategy and a bunch of VP chips. He got 45, and I came in second with 26.
I actually prefer San Juan because of the higher interactivity between players in comparison to Race. I can see how Race plays well and I do enjoy it, but I do prefer having more interaction between the players. Probably why half the games we end up liking as a gaming group are Ameritrash.
Race is lots of fun - the strategies you take end up being very luck driven at least, I know my second game I ended up with New Sparta too but went the production-development route (unsucessfully sadly) because I kept drawing everything but military cards.
Race is still probably one of the best games that came out in 2008 though. Hmm, I wonder if we should start a thread to see what the votes are for best games in 2008?
Race is still probably one of the best games that came out in 2008 though. Hmm, I wonder if we should start a thread to see what the votes are for best games in 2008?
Well, perhaps in 2009?
And Agricola should win. Unless Battlestar Galactica does. Boy, I want that game to come out!
I've played both just a few times. My preference would thematically be Race for the Galaxy, however, that games seems far more complex. Both times I've played RftG I tried the simplest strategy, military. Got close to winning once, except after some thought I came to the conclusion I or we weren't doing one of the actions correctly. Still don't know since we haven't played for several months.
I prefer Race to San Juan, mostly because San Juan is... well, sort-of solved. I don't recall the card combo offhand, but it's basically focused on the one that gives you extra VP for plantations, and then building a crapload of plantations really quickly. Most of our games of it have ended that way for the last half-dozen plays or so, so I've pretty-much lost interest.
Race is still lots of fun, and I quite look forward to the expansion!
I prefer Race to San Juan, mostly because San Juan is... well, sort-of solved. I don't recall the card combo offhand, but it's basically focused on the one that gives you extra VP for plantations, and then building a crapload of plantations really quickly. Most of our games of it have ended that way for the last half-dozen plays or so, so I've pretty-much lost interest.
How many players? The card you're thinking of is Guild Hall.
It certainly doesn't win every game I play; City Hall is more common the winning card with me, but I have to vary my strategy every game.
Granted, I only played it once, but it seemed to me like that building which let you store cards underneath it as VP was pretty broken... Not just for the points, but alsfor the fact that you can take a card out of the game permanently (e.g. the other copy of that same card!).
Granted, I only played it once, but it seemed to me like that building which let you store cards underneath it as VP was pretty broken... Not just for the points, but alsfor the fact that you can take a card out of the game permanently (e.g. the other copy of that same card!).
The Chapel is good... but it is a long way from being broken. You need to be really good at the game to not lose when playing it against another skilled player. It generally only works when they're playing pretty slowly, or you've built up an incredible production strategy. Card Advantage is so important in this game, and losing cards isn't good.
Incidentally, I've played 99 games of San Juan on www.brettspielwelt.de; plus a few more with my friends, so I've played the game over one-hundred times. It is still one of my favourite games.
I prefer Race to San Juan, mostly because San Juan is... well, sort-of solved. I don't recall the card combo offhand, but it's basically focused on the one that gives you extra VP for plantations, and then building a crapload of plantations really quickly. Most of our games of it have ended that way for the last half-dozen plays or so, so I've pretty-much lost interest.
Beg to differ. This Guild Hall plus Plantations strategy is only so powerful if your opponents are helping you. This strategy needs a three-card-cycle (Overseer -> Trader -> Builder) for nearly each plantation you want to build. Guess how long this cycle takes when you're on your own with the growing/selling part.
And with this strategy you absolutely need the Guild Hall. What do you do when you have to wait for it? And what do you do when it is dealt at the start of the game? Do you really use a strategy which gives you few cards up to the middle of the game? Be prepared to have the Guild Hall still lounging in your hand when your (aggressive) opponent builds his 12th building.
To be more flexible, you need several purple buldings as well (Smithy, Poor House, Aquaeduct, Black Market,...), which in turn reduce the value of your Guild Hall.
The proposed strategy is a seldom winner in our games.
I've seen it on the shelves, but considering my budget I need to be careful in what I purchase these days.
Can someone give/point to an overview of how it plays? I've seen several complaints about how non-interactive it it with other players in some ways...which in a game themed around sci fi empire building seems a bit odd.
I've seen it on the shelves, but considering my budget I need to be careful in what I purchase these days.
Can someone give/point to an overview of how it plays? I've seen several complaints about how non-interactive it it with other players in some ways...which in a game themed around sci fi empire building seems a bit odd.
There's pretty much no player interaction. It's basically just a race to have the most points by the end of the game. Thus, player interaction is limited essentially to trying not to fall behind.
If you've played San Juan, it's rather similar to that, though still quite different.
There are 5 phases in each round, but not all 5 phases are used each turn. Specifically, each person chooses a phase secretly and they're all revealed at the same time. If, for example, no one chose "Explore," then there won't be an explore phase this round. If one or multiple people chose settle, there's a single settle phase this round.
So there's a bit of... implied player interaction, I guess, in that if you really want to explore, develop and settle, you can only play one of those and you gotta try to guess what other people might play and hope others play the other cards you need that round.
So there's a bit of... implied player interaction, I guess, in that if you really want to explore, develop and settle, you can only play one of those and you gotta try to guess what other people might play and hope others play the other cards you need that round.
The interaction is actually non-trivial with practice. It just feels like solitaire to start. The only major interaction is guessing what others will do.
That said, it is certainly less interaction than most games.
Can someone give/point to an overview of how it plays? I've seen several complaints about how non-interactive it it with other players in some ways...which in a game themed around sci fi empire building seems a bit odd.
It's interactive in so far as your best selected action might change depending on what your opponent does or is likely to do, but you're not going to send an invading force to take over their planets or anything like that. I like the game because I enjoy its focus on overall economic optimization based on variable (luck of the draw, what the other player does) inputs.
Last edited by darkwing; 10th January 2009 at 07:22 PM..
Early on, it will feel extremely non-interactive. The change from the puerto rico style where one player taking a phase excludes another will lead to learning plays constantly overlapping. This is not to say more seasoned players will not overlap, but it will happen much less because of what interactivity the game has to offer coming to light.
For those completely uninitiated: Race is a completely card-based game of attempting to amass as many victory points as possible before the end of the game, which is any player managing to put 12 cards down on their portion of the board, or the victory points running out. Early on in the learning curve of the game, most groups will conclude predominantly with board fill. In the game, cards represent everything: you will both play cards from your hand as well as discard from your hand to play the card's associated cost. In this way, cards are both your money and your options. Similarly, to signify that a planet has produced a good, you will put a face down card on top of it.
For the actual game: there are 5 phases, with the "consume" phase (similar to captain and trader in puerto rico) and the "explore" phase having 2 potential ways to be played. There is a small advantage to playing each phase, the most prominent being the advantages of the consume phase. Early on, our group would frequently overlap as we would refuse to rely on anyone else to give us a phase we required.
This brings me to the main point: how is RftG interactive? I consider it very similar to drafting in magic the gathering. The strategy you pursue should be very dependent not only on what is made available to you in your early draws+starting planets, but what your opponents are doing. If you are looking to, for example, focus on a particular kind of good to capitalize on cards that work well with that good, be aware of any opponents also digging for it, and get out of an "overdrafted" strategy. The second part of this is knowing what your opponents will be doing. If there is only one military player, he is likely to settle on most of the turns, so rather than you settling you may pick a different phase. Much like drafting in magic can at first feel as simple as picking the best card out of 15 or fewer cards, you eventually realize that it is just as important what you are passing to and recieving from your opponents. Success comes from finding underutilized resources.
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