Surprised there's no Catan on that list to be honest, I guess "best" doesn't mean what's popular.
It's board game geek ... the games that are considered good naturally are a bit more hardcore than Settlers of Catan (which is generally considered fairly weak due to its extreme randomness, I believe, despite being a fun game).
Bye
Thanee
__________________
“In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!”
In Memoriam Dave Arneson († April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax († March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
I haven't played any of the "Top 10". Agricola sounds like "multi-player solitaire", which is what I've heard about Race ftG too.
I am glad to see that a number of wargames are rated pretty highly.
No way. Race for the Galaxy is all about leeching off the other guy's actions.
__________________ Of course I wanted Jim to find the mallard. Make him feel safe. Did you really think I would put my primary listening device in a wooden mallard? I'm not insane. - Dwight K. Schrute
I haven't played any of the "Top 10". Agricola sounds like "multi-player solitaire", which is what I've heard about Race ftG too.
I am glad to see that a number of wargames are rated pretty highly.
Agricola is by no means multi-player solitaire. You interfere in each other's games a lot by taking the wood, sheep or other resource they wanted before they do.
If you play it with the Interactive deck, it gets even more... interactive.
It's a truly great game.
Race for the Galaxy is lots of fun, and the actions of your opponents definitely affect you... but it's a lot closer to multi-player solitaire.
It's board game geek ... the games that are considered good naturally are a bit more hardcore than Settlers of Catan (which is generally considered fairly weak due to its extreme randomness, I believe, despite being a fun game).
Settlers of Catan is #33, which is very high. (There are almost 5000 boardgames rated on BGG).
Settlers is an excellent gateway game, and I've played hundreds of games of it. However, once you're past your initial introduction to boardgames, you discover that there are many, many good games.
Here's the list from #31-40:
#31: YINSH - this is an one of a family of abstract games. I know nothing about it at all; it doesn't appeal to my friends at all.
#32: Stone Age - a new addition; it is a worker placement game (like Agricola and Caylus), but lighter and more random. I enjoy this game a lot, and I've been playing it on brettspielwelt.de
#33: The Settlers of Catan - one of the seminal Eurogames, and a fine gateway game to the larger boardgaming hobby. I play it on BSW, and still enjoy it a lot.
#34: Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear - a very new "light-medium" wargame. Lovely components; uses action points for activation and cards for interesting modifiers during the game. It's a good introduction to WW2 wargames.
#35: Tichu - we have it; I haven't played it yet.
#36: Wallenstein - a hybrid Euro/Wargame set in Russia - it was later reimplemented as the highly ranked Shogun. This one is out of print and hard to get; I haven't played it.
#37: Crokinole - a Canadian dexterity game using a wooden board, pegs and balls. I think.
#38: Hammer of the Scots - an excellent area control wargame, where your leaders (and their troops) go home every winter. I've only played this once, but it's really great and I want to play it again.
#39: Le Havre - a new addition... so new, it isn't even out in English yet (AFAIK). It's the follow-up to Agricola, although it changes a bunch of things.
#40: Memoir '44 - a brilliant, brilliant light wargame using Richard Borg's "Command & Colours" system.
#41: Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) - one of the giants of the wargaming world. Released in 1985, and still having material produced for it today, ASL is a very detailed system that can handle nearly any combined arms land action of World War 2. One of my top 5 games of all time... and I only started playing in the last couple of years.
#42: Samurai - one of the great Reiner Knizia's tile games; this one's a good Eurogame, although it tends to be appreciated those who like solving puzzles. You need to surround treasure tokens with matching soldiers (and wild cards), but it can be very difficult to work against your opponents. I enjoy it, but it's doesn't thrill me.
#43: Ticket to Ride: Europe - the best of Alan Moon's "Ticket to Ride" series. It's a good family, gateway game to boardgaming. You collect sets of train cards to claim routes across Europe, whilst attempting to connect the stations mentioned in your secret hand of ticket cards. I delight in the TTR games, but this one is my favourite.
#44: Taj Mahal - this one is a lot of fun. You build palaces across India, attempting to gain trade goods and special bonuses while connecting links of palaces. It's hard to explain, but very fun to play. Eurogame.
#45: Struggle of Empires - we have it; and that's all I know.
#46: Ticket to Ride - the original TTR game. More cutthroat than Europe, although it really needs the 1910 expansion to shine.
#47: Modern Art - it's an auction game, but that's about all I know about it.
#48: Dune - the old Avalon Hill classic. Designed by the team that designed Cosmic Encounter, Dune really captures the essence of the novel - six factions fight for control of the planet. Love this one, although I rarely play it these days.
#49: Galaxy Trucker - a new game, but one that's really worth looking out for. First you design your spaceship (a chaotic affair - you blindly draw tiles from a central point, competing against your opponents...), then it's a race to the finish, with lots of event cards (smugglers, asteroids, pirates...) making it harder for you. It's not uncommon for large parts of your ship to never arrive. Highly recommended. (2-4 players)
#50: Up Front - it's ASL as a card game! Highly sought after, although MMP are working on a revised version for some year close in the future. Probably. Haven't played this one.
It's big on BSW. It tends to attract a devoted following who are fanatical about it. I used to play it on there a lot... I'd describe it as a trick-taking game, but that's not entirely accurate.
Despite being fairly simple, rules wise, it can be very, very difficult to teach. I'm fond of a quote I heard on Boardgame Geek... something along the lines of "I once watched 3 people telling a new person how to play Tichu. It was like watching a bunch of teens kick a hobo."
Quote:
#37: Crokinole - a Canadian dexterity game using a wooden board, pegs and balls. I think.
Discs, actually. I've never played it either, but from what I understand you try to flick discs into the inner ring, which is surrounded by pins which block you, and there's a hole in the very center that's worth extra points if you can get a disc to fall into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerricB
#47: Modern Art - it's an auction game, but that's about all I know about it.
It's the only auction game I've played which is literally an auction game. The components leave something to be desired, but the gameplay is fantastic. I'm a big fan of it. I've got a friend who's hilariously bad at it, though, and refuses to play it.
Ah... Avalon Hill's Dune. Now there's a boardgame, eh?
My favorite little mechanical set is the alternate victory conditions that some of the factions have. For example, the Guild wins if nobody else wins at the end of the game... they have preserved the status quo. So the Guild doesn't have to play for a direct victory; they can just play spoiler the whole time.
Likewise, the Bene Gesserit get to predict a winner and the turn he wins; if they're right then that player instead loses and the Bene Gesserit win. Great if you like to play mind games with people. The BG really help the Atreides on turn 3, so the others assume that they predicted his win on turn 4. So on turn 4, they all dogpile the Atreides. But this leaves several factions open, and so the Emperor is able to swoop in and win handily on turn 5... which is what the BG really predicted and so steal the win.
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
Trying to establish a little BGG beachead here at ENWorld I see, he he...
Cool, cool...
As for me, I have 5 of the top 10...
Agricola (1)
- Played only once. Great game. Send your family to work to grow your farm. So much to do, so little time.
Puerto Rico (2)
- Haven’t played this one yet. I don’t know, it never seems to come up with our group.
Dominion (6)
- Instant hit with everyone I’ve played up to now. Simple mechanics, great replayability.
El Grande (7)
- Played once & went & bought the Decennial Ed. Great game. Instant favorite.
Race for the Galaxy (9)
- Disapointed by the expansion set. I don’t like the solo version & a few cards, some new objectives, isn’t much for the price.
... and 15 of the top 100
Shogun (17)
- Just played my 1st game today. Very fun. A personal favorite for me now. The battle tower worked great. Took longer to play than I tought but one player had a small case of AP.
Pandemic (24)
- Coop game. Very hard. Played 4 solo games up to now & won only one, on the very last turn, no more cards in the player’s pile, the dispatcher curing the YELLOW fever, getting the 5th card from the Op. Expert.
Twilight Imperium (3ème Édition) (29)
- Mammoth space civ game. Personal favorite. Not as long to play that it’s made to be. Last game I played lasted 6 hours, including setup, explaining the rules to 3 newbies, playing & putting the whole thing back in the box.
Go (30)
- The perfect game. Anything else is but a pale imitation. Yes, I like it that much.
Arkham Horror (55)
- As a Cthulhu mythos & Lovecraft fan, I could not pass on this. Cthulhu Talisman! Coop game. Explore locations to get clues, items & other bonuses, fight monsters, close gates & hope you won’t face the GOO at the end.
Carcassonne (56)
- Another game I like very much. Have all the expansions, except the catapult. Simple game to play with all.
Civilization (68)
- Well Advanced CIV I should say. This one takes a long time, 8-10 hours, more if you let the traiding linger on. Needs 7 commited, serious gamers.
In the Year of the Dragon (66)
- Try to manage one of the worst year in the kingdom history as Plagues, Invasions, Droughts & more will strike. Resource & action managment game.
Fury of Dracula (96)
- Haven’t played this one yet. Semi-Coop game, hunters vs. Dracula. Interesting mechanic to allow the Vampire to move unseen.
RoboRally (1ère Édition) (99)
- A favorite. Have all the extra boards. Great race-demolition-derby-obstacle-course game. You can make it as long/short, nasty/friendly, simple/complex as you want. And watching your friends twisting in all direction on their chair trying to figure out where they are going is a bonus...
#34: Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear - a very new "light-medium" wargame. Lovely components; uses action points for activation and cards for interesting modifiers during the game. It's a good introduction to WW2 wargames.
Have you played this one, Merric? I'd be interested to hear what you think of it, as a budding ASLer (not a phrase that has been said often in the past decade!). CoH looks really interesting to me.
The things that put me off might strike some as superficial: I'm into the East Front but not so much Barbarossa. Too one-sided. I'm more for Stalingrad, Kursk and Bagration. Also, it doesn't look like there are any winter maps, and although it covers through '42 there's evidently nothing about Stalingrad.
Still, it looks like "ASL lite" or "ASL for ADD", which is right up my alley. If I hear good things, I might plunge in for the second installment, which covers the east front in 43-45... that's a bit more fun of a period for me (well, '43-'44 anyway).
Of course, on the Stalingrad issue... they could probably do a whole supplement just for that. Finland might be interesting, too. And Operation Cobra. And Sicily. Man... they could do a lot with this if they get going.
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
And how is Dominion? It's on my list of games to get. I've read the reviews on BBG, however it's always nice to hear more opinions on it.
I enjoyed my first game of it on Saturday, but I really need to play more games of it to form a proper opinion.
It's fast, though. Our 2-player game played in about 20 minutes; and there was real tension as Randy and I got to buying VP cards - you really need to pay attention to what your opponent(s) are doing there. Looks like a huge amount of variety in the game: there are slightly over 3.2 million combinations of starting stacks possible. (You play each game with 10 of 25 stacks).
My group absolutely loves Agricola and Power Grid, but we seem to have just as much fun with the much lower-rated Last Night on Earth and Talisman. And Carcassonne is always a good time.
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you." - Batman, Batman Begins "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight "Yeah, I can fly." - Tony Stark, Iron Man
Inside my hands these petals browned;
dried up falling to the ground,
but it was already too late now.
I pushed my fingers through the earth,
returned this flower to the dirt;
so it could live, I walked away now."
Rise Against - "The Good Left Undone"
My group absolutely loves Agricola and Power Grid, but we seem to have just as much fun with the much lower-rated Last Night on Earth and Talisman. And Carcassonne is always a good time.
Ultimately, the ratings don't mean a lot. It's important to keep that in mind. I sometimes find myself unfairly biased against games simply because they have low ratings on the geek.
In particular, BGG tends to rate highly games where skill, strategy and tactics are all vastly more important than luck. This isn't a hard rule of course, but it is a strong tendency.
It took me a long time to realize that it's okay to play a games of luck, dexterity, memorization, etc. They're not bad games, just different games.
Another thing about ratings: ratings are often going to be from people who bought the game. A lot of times, only those who are already going to like a game (or at least are predisposed to liking it) will buy it. For example, few people will shell out $100 for Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition unless they already like the basics of the game. Likewise, few people will plunk down $60-70 for a theme-lite Euro of order taking with little wooden blocks unless you already like those things.
The ratings aren't useless, but if you don't read between the lines they're not really going to be very meaningful because a lot of times the set of people giving the ratings will already be skewed to a particular direction. Likewise, some people rate games without even playing them so the fewer the ratings, the less potentially meaningful (some will give a game a 10 because they highly anticipate it and think it's going to be the cat's pajamas).
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
Have you played this one, Merric? I'd be interested to hear what you think of it, as a budding ASLer (not a phrase that has been said often in the past decade!). CoH looks really interesting to me.
It's fun, but after only two games, I'm still learning the system. It used a programmed instruction set, which is great, but it means I haven't even scratched the surface.
Lighter than either CC:E or ASL (of course!). Heavier than M44. More fun than Tide of Iron... but I really don't like that game. Way too fiddly!
The ratings aren't useless, but if you don't read between the lines they're not really going to be very meaningful because a lot of times the set of people giving the ratings will already be skewed to a particular direction. Likewise, some people rate games without even playing them so the fewer the ratings, the less potentially meaningful (some will give a game a 10 because they highly anticipate it and think it's going to be the cat's pajamas).
The best tool on BGG is "Personalised Recommendations" - you'll find it under your Game Ratings on your profile. It matches your ratings with those of other people who rated similiarly, and then gives you the list of games you might enjoy.
So, if you rate random/theme games like Last Night on Earth and Talisman highly, you'll be matched with other people who like those sort of games and gain recommendations thereby.
For me, I get a real grab-bag of games... but I like a lot of different games (Eurogames, Milsims and Ameritheme), so that's no surprise.
Another thing about ratings: ratings are often going to be from people who bought the game. A lot of times, only those who are already going to like a game (or at least are predisposed to liking it) will buy it. For example, few people will shell out $100 for Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition unless they already like the basics of the game. Likewise, few people will plunk down $60-70 for a theme-lite Euro of order taking with little wooden blocks unless you already like those things.
The ratings aren't useless, but if you don't read between the lines they're not really going to be very meaningful because a lot of times the set of people giving the ratings will already be skewed to a particular direction. Likewise, some people rate games without even playing them so the fewer the ratings, the less potentially meaningful (some will give a game a 10 because they highly anticipate it and think it's going to be the cat's pajamas).
As usual, reading why something has some N rating is more useful than seeing what the rating is.
__________________ "I'd like to shake the hand of the genius who invented that - just the hand, after it's been cut off from the now screaming man."
#36: Wallenstein - a hybrid Euro/Wargame set in Russia - it was later reimplemented as the highly ranked Shogun. This one is out of print and hard to get; I haven't played it.
It's actually set in middle europe (today the region is covered by germany, austria, czech republic) at the beginning of the Thirty Years' War. Russia is a bit further to the east.
The game seems to be exactly the same as Shogun (maybe some minor tweaks) only with a different map.
Bye
Thanee
__________________
“In our world, immortality is not for the living. The legend lives on!”
In Memoriam Dave Arneson († April 7th, 2009) & Gary Gygax († March 4th, 2008).
Wondering what the Dungeon Tiles are like? Take a look here (up to DU5 Sinister Woods).
Reading this thread brings back fond memories of playing games like Conquest of the Empire, Axis and Allies, and Fortress America. Those were good times. Does anyone still make games like those anymore? I think I still have a copy of A&A in a box in my basment somewhere.
__________________ I play 4E, it's too bad we cannot discuss its flaws yet without flamewars and thread crapping.
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