(And with that, I make my first post in this forum).
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(And with that, I make my first post in this forum).
No. Twilight Struggle is a Wargame/ConSim, although an unusual one. It's definitely not an Euro. I suppose Through the Ages counts as an Euro, but it pushes the boundaries.
Much as I admire their strategic complexity, Eurotrash games generally don't appeal to my aestetic tastes. Like, "Settlers of Thanksgiving" is fun and all, but I feel like I'm in grade school when I play it. It's so ... precious.
Last edited by Umbran; 17th December 2008 at 02:22 AM..
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I don’t know, I haven’t played it! (This is one of those “trying to get back into it”, things for me). From reading descriptions, it has a “choice focusing” mechanic that increases replayability, and that is sort of euro, but on the other hand is big, epic, involves fighting, has lots of fantasy themed pieces and a rulebook longer then 10 pages. Looked very cool.
Twilight Strugle also looked interesting, and Through the Ages, I will probably check out at some point, but again, something gets so abstract...it looses the fun...but at least it has a big theme.
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Yeah, I like Race for the Galaxy, but for the most part those Eurogames are pretty boring. Hell, a lot of them remind me of my degree in supply chain management, but with all the fun and interesting parts taken out.
I can't believe that games like Camelot, Arkham, and Pandemic aren't on the top 10.
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4E has rituals, use them, they're magic; Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then click; You can use “Earth” as a D&D setting; Origins of The Rouse; (look for it) The Rouse responds; (look for it) One can appreciate both old and new D&D.
Last edited by TerraDave; 16th December 2008 at 10:00 PM..
Yeah, I like Race for the Galaxy, but for the most part those Eurogames are pretty boring. Hell, a lot of them remind me of my degree in supply chain management, but with all the fun and interesting parts taken out.
I can't believe that games like Camelot, Arkham, and Pandemic aren't on the top 10.
None of those three are really top 10 worthy. (I presume you mean "Shadows over Camelot"?) I've played all three (I own both Arkham Horror and Pandemic), and of the three only Arkham Horror deserves a high place IMO. Pandemic is very clever, but I really don't think it has extended replay value. It also tends very much towards just being a solo game - one person can make all the decisions, really.
Shadows over Camelot is fun, but there are a lot of better games. (I've a feeling that I'm going to enjoy BSG a lot more than SoC).
For a game to rank highly on BGG, it's got to appeal to a *lot* of people. Agricola fully deserves its #1 spot - despite being a Eurogame, it has a giood amount of theme to it.
Of the games in the Top 10 list, four are very new: Agricola, Dominion, Through the Ages and Race for the Galaxy.
I expect that Race will likely drop out of the Top 10 next year. Possibly TTA and Dominion as well.
Looking at #11 to #20, we find a wider range of games:
#11: The Princes of Florence
#12: Age of Steam
#13: War of the Ring
#14: C&C: Ancients
#15: Brass
#16: Hannibal: Rome vs Carthage
#17: Die Macher
#18: Shogun
#19: Paths of Glory
#20: 1960: The Making of the President.
This list is dominated by the wargames - WotR, C&C, Hannibal, Shogun and Paths. Interestingly, all five use cards to add variety, although in very different ways. Hannibal and Paths are good examples of the card-driven wargame in the traditional school; C&C:A is one of several games using Borg's quite effective card/command system, and WotR uses Card Events and Dice to drive the action.
I don’t know, I haven’t played it! (This is one of those “trying to get back into it”, things for me). From reading descriptions, it has a “choice focusing” mechanic that increases replayability, and that is sort of euro, but on the other hand is big, epic, involves fighting, has lots of fantasy themed pieces and a rulebook longer then 10 pages. Looked very cool.
War of the Ring is an exceptional game. It takes 2-3 hours to play (generally), although probably longer whilst you're learning - or in a rare game where things just happen.
It's definitely not a Euro, but neither is it a traditional wargame. Your actions are restricted by the dice you roll, but you have event cards that can allow you to do special things that drip with theme from the books.
#21-30 are interesting, and we get our first traditional boardgame here:
#21: Ra
#22: Goa
#23: Railroad Tycoon
#24: Pandemic - that's very, very high. I don't think it'll keep it, but it's an astonishingly high rank
#25: Battlelore
#26: Imperial
#27: Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery
#28: Combat Commander: Europe
#29: Twilight Imperium 3rd edition
#30: Go.
Of the top 30 games, there's only one I haven't played - Paths of Glory - and that's a game we own and plan to get to in the near future.
My favourite boardgame of all time was a 1970s/80's game "Survive" by Parker Bros. If it were produced today, it'd probably be called a eurogame, but I don't think that's appropriate since it's was actually fun!
The board resembles the board for Settlers, with an island constructed from hexagonal cards. The island is exploding though, and each turn you remove one of the island peices and reveal the object or instructions underneathe.
Each player controls a tribe with (I think) 12 people. Each of those 12 people has a point value assigned to it, but you won't know til the end of the game.
The islanders either try to swim or row to the nearby islands before the sharks, whales or sea serpents get them.
Brilliant stuff. I can't beleive it's fallen into obscurity.
My favourite boardgame of all time was a 1970s/80's game "Survive" by Parker Bros. If it were produced today, it'd probably be called a eurogame, but I don't think that's appropriate since it's was actually fun!
The board resembles the board for Settlers, with an island constructed from hexagonal cards. The island is exploding though, and each turn you remove one of the island peices and reveal the object or instructions underneathe.
Each player controls a tribe with (I think) 12 people. Each of those 12 people has a point value assigned to it, but you won't know til the end of the game.
The islanders either try to swim or row to the nearby islands before the sharks, whales or sea serpents get them.
Brilliant stuff. I can't beleive it's fallen into obscurity.
That sounds really cool. (There's a recent Eurogame called Downfall of Pompeii which has your meeples being fried by lava and tossed into the volcano, which is also amusing. Horrible things happening often are in games...)
Survive! is ranked #229 on BGG as well - that's exceptionally high.
It's hard for boardgames to stay in print; they need to be really exceptional and keep selling (as Monopoly, Carcassonne and Settlers of Catan have). I dare say that in five years, the Top 10 on BGG will change significantly.
I've also been noting a rise in wargames, as several good games are released that are good introductions to the hobby for gamers.
And Puerto Rico's not a bad game, to be sure, but I always feel it's horrendously overrated. I just don't understand why it's rated so highly.
I think it has a lot to do with when it was published: in 2002, it provided a game with several interlocking economic mechanisms, and the variety of the different building types.
Like Caylus and Agricola, you're building up your engine so that the late game plays quite differently from the early game, and each game plays differently based on the different buildings you buy. That's also the attraction of Dominion and Race for the Galaxy, of course!
However, of the top games on BGG, Puerto Rico was first. Caylus was 2005, and Agricola very recent indeed. It had 3-4 years to build a very healthy rating. I don't know if those who voted it up are still active on BGG, or how often they still play it, but it's definitely one of the stand-out games of the last decade.
No, it isn't one of my Top 10, but I see the attraction.
I'll third the over-rating of Puerto Rico, but I tend towards more Ameritheme games anyway. Of the top 10, I have played only 4 - the top and bottom 2. Hee. I've heard great things about Dominion and definitely intend to pick up a copy myself, ditto Caylus (or Caylus Magna Carta - any suggestions on which? I like the potential portability aspect of CMC).
The others I have friends who I can mooch games off
Oh and if you want a real logistics / supply chain management game - buy Container. I still need to play that game with some real gamers - it's so not a gateway game.
I'll third the over-rating of Puerto Rico, but I tend towards more Ameritheme games anyway. Of the top 10, I have played only 4 - the top and bottom 2. Hee. I've heard great things about Dominion and definitely intend to pick up a copy myself, ditto Caylus (or Caylus Magna Carta - any suggestions on which? I like the potential portability aspect of CMC).
The others I have friends who I can mooch games off
Oh and if you want a real logistics / supply chain management game - buy Container. I still need to play that game with some real gamers - it's so not a gateway game.
I think CMC is a pale imitation of the original. It just isn't as tense or as good as Caylus. Caylus plays very well with 2-4 players, less well with five.
Of the top 10, I've only played Race (which I really enjoy), so it's hard for me to really compare. Agricola just doesn't sound interesting to me though. It seems so petty.
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Want to see the greatest thing you will ever see? then 
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