After just beginning to really dig into gaming this year, our group has grown weary of the somewhat lighter interactivity of eurogames. We got so many of them from our respective christmases that we've suddenly exploded through agricola, powergrid, race for the galaxy, ticket to ride, and puerto rico. They're all great games but we're burning ourselves out.
We're looking for a game, potentially a wargame, with the following criteria:
1) can potentially support 4+ players
2) no more complex than agricola/PR
3) Heavy on player interaction, preferably besides munchkin style "screwing".
Any suggestions are welcome. If you think of suggestions that would be more conditional based on what our group is like, please post them. Thanks in advance! If I managed to uncover something on my own I'll make sure to post it here, or if I follow up on a suggestion.
Hmmm, well there's the co-operative series of games. Battlestar Galactica and Shadows over Camelot both come to mind. Shadows is I understand the less complex of the two above. There's also pure co-operative games like Pandemic, Lord of the Rings and Arkham Horror. All high on interaction obviously since their co-operative games.
War games wise, for 4+ players, try Game of Thrones. Also, you might enjoy Risk 2210 or Dust. I'm not a huge fan of Risk 2210 but that's a personal taste thing, I know tons who love it. Note that most war games, especially for 4+ are going to be more complex than Agricola and Puerto Rico. No way around it. The closest that I know of to a simple 4+ one are the Risk 2210 and Dust games, or Memoir '44 with the Overlord expansion.
Last Night on Earth is really good, simple zombie game that is high on theme and since it's a 2-sided game, high on interaction inside parties.
And there's always the oldie... Diplomacy. All interaction. Though I prefer Intrigue (but that's a max 4 player game).
All great suggestions. We actually have BSG but haven't gotten to it yet (so many games!), so once we actually play it i'll be sure to post my reactions. The only concern is that, since I haven't watched the show, some of the subtle tie-ins might be lost on me.
We do also have arkham horror, and really enjoyed it although it may have been over-ambitious to start off with 6 people and thinking 2 hours before we had to leave for dinner/movie was enough (it wasn't!).
I believe other people in my group have played risk 2210, but I have not. Now I am slightly more interested in it. I think I may have been reticent due to bad memories of original risk lasting 3 hours before getting eliminated and then another 2 after that. Apparently (and thankfully) it seems they're different!
max 4 is acceptable as well, after all settlers is max 4. In terms of complexity I'm mostly just trying to avoid "pure" wargames where the focus is so heavily on realism that the rules just seem to pile up.
Ironically, the game we seem to still be willing to play over and over is Race for the galaxy. Despite it being especially low on interactivity, it's so quick to play that we hardly mind, and as we all get better at predicting opponent's phase choices and trying to set up to gain something on each phase, as well as being careful about what cards we discard to pay when they're clearly part of an opponent's strategy, it begins to feel a little less solitaire. The same goes for the objectives of the expansion. Seeing that someone is likely to score an objective in the current turn may force a change in phase selection in a "now or never" kind of way.
If you want a proper wargame, get Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear. I've just gotten into it and it's fantastic. It involves moving chits on a hex map, but they're one inch square linen-textured chits and the maps are gorgeous. Each time you play it you will play a "Firefight", which is their term for mission. There are two player missions, and also four player missions. More are available for download on their web site. Most are aimed at two players, though, so a regular four player group will be replaying the missions over again (I think there are four such missions available, but of course they're really big and there's a lot of variation).
One thing that is cool about it is that there are no charts to look up. You're rolling 2d6 plus the unit's firepower rating versus the other unit's defense rating (it has two, depending on if you are hitting it from the front or not). Firepower values labeled in red go best against red defense, but are halved against blue defense... and the same with blue firepower ratings (red being anti-personnel and blue being anti-tank). So rather than have a special rule for gun shields, shielded guns just have a front blue defense and a flank red defense. It's all pretty simple and elegant like that. If you hit the enemy unit, you draw a damage chit. It is killed if you hit by four or more, draw the killed chit, or if it is hit while already under a damage chit. Also, the way it does "overwatch" and the fluid nature of the battlefield is that for every action a unit executes (move one space, firing, trying to rally, etc.), the opponent may declare a reaction move right after that (so if you move, I can fire at you, then you can move again, etc.). You take turns activating units so there is a lot of back-and-forth. Good game, and fast. Oh, it's about Operation Barbarossa, by the way.
Another wargame that supports multiple players is Memoir '44. You have to buy two sets, though, or buy the special Overlord boxed expansion... but if you do that, you'll have to settle for using cardboard counters for some of the units rather than M44's premier feature, the little plastic dudes. There's even a special expansion aimed at playing "Overlord" style called "Hedgerow Hell", which is obviously about Normandy. It's a good game but there's a fair bit of luck involved, because you only get to move your battalions using cards. If you don't draw good cards, you're going to sit there getting owned and not be able to fight back very well. But it's fast and usually fun. Nota Bene: a famous boardgame reviewer seemed to think that playing the game in "Overlord" mode refers to the fact that each side has one top general which he called the "overlord". Obviously, it actually refers to Operation Overlord, which was the name for the invasion of Normandy by the Allies.
Risk 2210 suffers from being Risk, which is to say that it's obviously highly stylized. You move "armies" into whole countries/regions and I'm not sure what it all represents. However, in this particular version you get to conquer the Moon, and I'm can't think of why any reasonable person wouldn't want to do that.
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
It definitely sounds like the first wargame you mention has enough elegance to avoid the dangers of a never ending unit list and a huge sourcebook, and I've looked into mem '44.
Abstraction like that in Risk and its spinoffs is cool with me. We do LIKE eurogames, we're just looking to increase the interactivity beyond "damnit! you took the move i wanted!"
I've been eying imperial lately as a potential eurogame with a heavier interaction element. Has anyone played it? Also, after reading some sites besides BGG focused on the flipside of eurogames, another euro-style with heavier interaction mentioned was Tigris in Euphrates. It turns out one of our group members is planning on purchasing that sometime in the near future. If we end up playing either of those I'll be sure to post my thoughts.
It definitely sounds like the first wargame you mention has enough elegance to avoid the dangers of a never ending unit list and a huge sourcebook, and I've looked into mem '44.
Abstraction like that in Risk and its spinoffs is cool with me. We do LIKE eurogames, we're just looking to increase the interactivity beyond "damnit! you took the move i wanted!"
I've been eying imperial lately as a potential eurogame with a heavier interaction element. Has anyone played it? Also, after reading some sites besides BGG focused on the flipside of eurogames, another euro-style with heavier interaction mentioned was Tigris in Euphrates. It turns out one of our group members is planning on purchasing that sometime in the near future. If we end up playing either of those I'll be sure to post my thoughts.
Will play Imperial this week-end for the 1st time. Looks very interesting. I personally call it Diplomacy: The Banker's Edition. I'll let you know how it went.
2 other games of war beside those suggested already...
- Conquest of the Empire (Set in Ancient Rome. you get 2 games in one, a Risk like elimination game & also a more complex, but not too much, area control game.)
- Shogun (One of my personal favorite. The battle tower rules !!!)
For something completely different, try "Cash n' Guns".
It's 4-6 players.
It's totally interactive.
You point guns at your friends.
You can play for real money.
It only takes about 30 minutes to play.
The gameplay is a bit like poker. You have 3 bullets that you can play over 8 rounds. The remaining 5 rounds you have to bluff. The trick is to either eliminate your competition or get your competition to fold.
I'm glad to be hearing good things about games I was already investigating. Reading about Cash n guns, it sounded like a hoot, glad to hear it's also fun.
The same person in the group working up to T&E will be considering Starcraft thereafter. When I look at the image shots of Twilight Imperium I get excited by all the hexes and units, but am deathly afraid of the 4 hour time limit. For reference, we can't even get ourselves to stay sitting for our weekly 3 hours of D&D.
I have yet to look into conquest of the empire, so I'll have to do some digging on that one today.
The same person in the group working up to T&E will be considering Starcraft thereafter. When I look at the image shots of Twilight Imperium I get excited by all the hexes and units, but am deathly afraid of the 4 hour time limit. For reference, we can't even get ourselves to stay sitting for our weekly 3 hours of D&D.
I'm not sure if the Flash, Speedy Gonzalez, Superman and the designer of Twilight Imperium could finish Twilight Imperium in 4 hours.
__________________ "I despise all weavers of the black arts. Speaking of which, can you pass the gravy?"
For Ameritheme games, I like both Twilight Imperium 3e and Starcraft.
Cheers!
I'll second Starcraft. It's one of my favorite games which I don't get to play enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melba Toast
For something completely different, try "Cash n' Guns".
It's 4-6 players.
It's totally interactive.
You point guns at your friends.
You can play for real money.
It only takes about 30 minutes to play.
The gameplay is a bit like poker. You have 3 bullets that you can play over 8 rounds. The remaining 5 rounds you have to bluff. The trick is to either eliminate your competition or get your competition to fold.
Ca$h & Gun$ is a great game. I wouldn't recommend playing it for real money, though. o_0
Just to add something new to the thread, how about the classic Cosmic Encounter? FFG just released a new edition which is getting rave reviews.
Haven't played the new CE but I have done the old one and it's fun. Fast to play and quite interesting.
Oooh, I forgot to toss in one other - Fire and Axe: A Viking Saga. Most of the interaction is 'screw them over' type (e.g. kicking colonies out, moving wind markers to make it really difficult for other players, etc.) but it's got a good, solid theme and Euro type mechanics. It's really quite interesting.
Lastly, TI3 definitely needs to be avoided if you can't sit still for at least 3 hours. Can't say anything about Starcraft, haven't had a chance with that game yet.
Did not get to play Imperial, maybe next week, but got to try Battlestar Galactica. It was a load of fun. I played Thig, started as human but became a cylon in the sleeper phase. Humans won but had 3 resources at 1 ... So close.
2 groups of 6 played & the humans won both games pretty easily. Will have to try it again to see if it was a fluke or if it's really that hard to win as the Cylon(s).
Illuminati might fit your needs. Its not a wargame, but it does have competitive gameplay, as well as a pretty large amount of interaction. The core mechanic is simple, but there are enough modifier variables in the game to make things a bit more complicated.
The core concept is that each player controls an Illuminati group, and everyone is trying to control the world through a conspiracy network. Each group has a ranking for its Power and Resistance, an income, and possibly a number of alignments. Each Illuminati need to either control a set number of groups (dependent on the number of players in the game), or achieve a secondary goal unique to that Illuminati.
You gain groups by attacking to control them, which pits the attacking groups power rating against the defending groups Resistance (Power minus Resistance). Then the modifiers come into play. Alignments either create a bonus or a penalty. You can spend money to improve your roll.
The interactivity in the game comes from the other players at the table interfering in your attacks by spending money to worsen the attack roll. The game also allows for any form of in game deal that does not amount to outright throwing the game. This includes buying and selling groups and special cards. Or trading groups. Or paying someone off to attack a 3rd party. And no deal is binding unless it is immediate, allowing you to renege.
It is definitely more complicated than a typical Euro-Game.
I played illuminati many years ago and did enjoy the games that I managed to play. Also, this weekend we finally got a chance to dig into BSG.
I and my lady were reticent at first since neither of us was familiar with the show, but our enjoyment of the game is making us consider beginning to watch. Playing with another couple, our total was 4, and I was dealt the cylon. I felt my bluffing skills worked rather well and I was able to feign a desire to help the ship, but unfortunately an early lack of understanding on the rules led me to quickly put people onto my trail. One of the players was the character who doesn't contribute until turn 2, and I unfortunately tried to sabotage before she could contribute, and with both destiny cards also detracting from the score, everyone became aware the cylon was among three. While i was able to continue to do a bit of damage and not get brigged, when the crisis card offered another play an opportunity to check loyalty, they correctly guessed with me, and once in cylon mode I simply was unable to attack any single resource aggressively enough. Overall a great game though, and I highly recommend.
I played illuminati many years ago and did enjoy the games that I managed to play.
The expansions do add a few new elements to the game. The Y2K expansion added two new Illuminati groups and the Bravarian Fire Drill expansion added Artifacts. While I have the Brainwash expansion, The complication it adds does not really add much to the game, though if I played more often I might be more inclined to use it.
Best ameritrash game I've played recently is Age of Conan...
__________________ Originally Posted by diaglo
Olgar Shiverstone or other new edition DM: so i've gotta wrap up the campaign..
diaglo: we could play OD&D(1974) the only true game. All the other editions are..
other gamer: i could run a campaign set in space with ninja pirates.
other gamers: done. when do we start.
diaglo:
Linear Mode
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