Wargames for casual newcomers?

[Sandwich]

My friends and I have recently gotten pretty into board games. So far we've got Starcraft the Board Game, Fire & Axe and Risk: Godstorm. And pretty soon we should also have Carcassonne, Arkham Horror, and Last Night on Earth.

In addition to these, I'd kind of like to try a wargame of some sort. The thing is, we're not the kind of hardcore dudes who would get really into something, so I think a simpler game would be better. I'd say that I'd be more interested in the game than the war. I've been looking at Memoir '44 as a place to start, since it seems to be simple and accessible enough for us, but can anyone recommend a better game?

[Dannyalcatraz]

One of the great simple wargames of all time is Ogre/G.E.V. Its been around forever, the rules are simple and straightforward.

There is also a miniatures game version of it.

[Arkhandus]

Mage Knight?

*dodges rotten fruits*

AFAIK it's defunct, but it should be fairly cheap to buy MK units or starter/booster boxes at game stores, Amazon.com, E-Bay, or something. They're just cheap pre-painted plastic miniatures, with a few stats on their bases. The base can be turned as the unit gets damaged or healed, to change its stats until it reaches the point where its stats are all skulls (dead).

I've got a ton of 'em, but I'm still hoping to find the chance to play the game again. Don't have any gamer buddies in the area, though (since moving several years ago). When you buy a starter box of Mage Knight (or any of the preconstructed army boxes), it comes with a small rulebook and an ability card. The ability card describes the handful of abilities that units in MK have, based on the color of the figure's stat box.

The game uses one or two six-sided dice and a small measuring tape or similar to measure distances. It's pretty simple to learn the game.

[jdrakeh]

You may want to look at AT-43 (mecha in an alternate future) — it's a are pre-painted minis games, still in production, has 'ready to play' starter sets available, and doesn't have a buy-in cost of several hundred dollars (unlike, say WH40k, as I'm learning).

[Dannyalcatraz]

I have some of the AT-43 minis- they're nice, and suitable for most sci-fi/supers games, but I haven't played the actual game. I've heard that its quite good, though.

[Victim]

Are you looking for a board game sort of wargame, or a tabletop miniatures wargame?

I've heard that Memoir is one of the more simplistic versions of that game system; Battlelore or Command and Colors Ancients sound like they'd have more depth while still being accessible. But I haven't played any of those games. And CC:A uses blocks with stickers instead of miniature units, which might be a visual turnoff.

Board Game Geek might be a good place to look for ideas - just in case you're not looking there already.

I was thinking about getting a wargame recently (I've pretty much settled on Tigris and Euphrates instead) and CC:A (mentioned above), Combat Commander, and Conflict of Heroes. They're all highly rated games and seemed to gain lots of praise for being accessible. I haven't played any of them, though.

[Thanee]

Originally Posted by jdrakeh

You may want to look at AT-43 (mecha in an alternate future) — it's a are pre-painted minis games, still in production, has 'ready to play' starter sets available, and doesn't have a buy-in cost of several hundred dollars (unlike, say WH40k, as I'm learning).

http://www.at-43.com/

Yep, it's definitely a nice game. Quick to learn, quick to play, with a nice amount of variety and tactics involved (not just dice rolling and luck, though that also plays a role, of course).

I'm not sure what you are looking at, when you say "wargame". AT-43 is a full-fledged tabletop game, minus the assembly/painting-part (unless you want to) that typically comes with those, of similar complexity as Warhammer 40,000.

Download the game rules for free from the official site to get an idea!

The starter box (Operation Damocles) is good value and good to get an idea about the game, but definitely not enough to play, you need a lot more for that (I would guess about $200 per player plus another $100 total for some additional terrain).

So while it might not be as expensive as WH40K, it certainly isn't a cheap game.

Bye
Thanee

[Korgoth]

I think Memoir '44 is a good choice from the standpoint that it is light, fun and fast-paced. It's fairly abstract, though, so you may not be able to visualize what's happening. You're moving around whole battalions at a time.

If you want to zoom in and get your Band of Brothers on, I highly recommend Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear. It's the first of a new series of stand alone squad-level games. The action is quite fast and the rules are very elegant. It is not too much harder than Memoir '44 (though it is a little harder) and it plays about as fast. I've played it with a friend who is a veteran ASL player and he says it feels like "Squad Leader Lite".

Check it out here:
Conflict of Heroes - CoH Home Page

Be sure to look navigate to the components and examples of play to get a feel for it. The components are quite lavish for a war game.

[Sandwich]

Thanks everyone for the responses.

We're more interested in a board game kind of deal, I think. I mainly don't want us to have to buy a lot of crap, I'd rather just buy a box and maybe some expansions and then be able to roll with it. I think my hierarchy of needs in wargames would probably be simple fun first, followed by simulationism.

I'm thinking about Combat Commander Pacific, because it looks pretty cool. And, if not that maybe Commands and Colors: Ancients. Both of those sound better than my original idea of memoir '44. Really, I'm not interested that much with miniature armymen, tanks an so forth; I don't want to feel like I'm playing with toys.

I'm also kind of looking at the Federation Commander games because... well, because I'm a huge nerd. Does anyone know if they're that great? I'm more interested in having an excellent and fun game than in setting and theme.

[MerricB]

Memoir '44 is exceptional; don't let the minis fool you. The game gets deeper the more you play it (especially with an expansion like the Eastern Front).

C&C:A is also a great game, though I don't like it as much as M44; it's also not quite so "casual".

Combat Commander: Europe and Conflict of Heroes are the next step up after that. Both are really fun games. (I haven't played CC:P yet; you might want to start with CC:E first).

Cheers!

[Korgoth]

Originally Posted by Sandwich

Thanks everyone for the responses.

We're more interested in a board game kind of deal, I think. I mainly don't want us to have to buy a lot of crap, I'd rather just buy a box and maybe some expansions and then be able to roll with it. I think my hierarchy of needs in wargames would probably be simple fun first, followed by simulationism.

I'm thinking about Combat Commander Pacific, because it looks pretty cool. And, if not that maybe Commands and Colors: Ancients. Both of those sound better than my original idea of memoir '44. Really, I'm not interested that much with miniature armymen, tanks an so forth; I don't want to feel like I'm playing with toys.

I'm also kind of looking at the Federation Commander games because... well, because I'm a huge nerd. Does anyone know if they're that great? I'm more interested in having an excellent and fun game than in setting and theme.

Commands and Colors: Ancients is excellent if you want a card driven game like Memoir '44 but want more depth and tactical complexity. It's my favorite of the Borg card driven wargames. Also, war elephants.

Federation Commander is superb. It's SFB lite, which is a good thing. It plays fast, has a good deal of tactical depth, and doesn't require you to memorize a bunch of fiddly rules. I suggest starting with "Klingon Border". It gives you a nice mix of ships, including some classic ones, and in general serves as an excellent introduction to the worlds of FedCom / SFU. And the Klingons are real Klingons: dour Mongolian Communist Klingons. Those are the best kind.

[jdrakeh]

Originally Posted by Thanee

So while it might not be as expensive as WH40K, it certainly isn't a cheap game.

Well, it's all relative. I'm building a 2000 pt Ultramarine army for 40k, which looks like it's going to cost me just about $500 after it is completed (this includes the cost for the rulebook, dice, etc — but not for the troop carrier that I ordered to store the minis).

[Thanee]

Originally Posted by jdrakeh

Well, it's all relative.

Of course.

Bye
Thanee

[bento]

C&C:A, Battlelore, and Memoir '44 use the same basic system, so depending on your tastes, these are a great place to start. You said you don't want to go down the slippery slope of expansions, and all three of these games have them. The basic box can be enough, but if you're like me and have an itch to play a slightly different campaign, you'll be buying additional boxes.

I'd recommend checking out GMTGames.com, the manufacturer of C&C:A which publishes board wargames on just about every period and campaign. Some are rather complex, while others are less so.

[Ahzad]

There's been some good suggestions already.

I can also recommend Federation Commander as an easy to learn space combat game. I also like the Babylon 5 A Call to Arms box set, no minis just a bunch of cardboard counters.

For WWII I like Tide of Iron and it fits as your request for everything in a box that only one person needs to buy and you can play it with 2-4 players for I think it cost me $80. There's is an expansion for it called Days of the Fox dealing w/ Rommel and North Africa.

I've heard nothing but good things about Memoir as well but have resisted the urge to pick it up so far.

[Imperialus]

It really depends on what you mean by complexity...

My personal favorite for an 'intro' wargame is L2 Design Group's The Russian Campaign. It's a classic, operational level wargame originally published by Avalon Hill back in the 60's or 70's but L2's version is still in print.

No step loss, supply and re-enforcement rules are very simple, not very many special units, Combat is a breeze as long as you can calculate odds, (CF 18 vs. CF 9 = 2:1) and it does a good job of simulating the campaign without getting bogged down in a lot of detail.

As an old game it also uses a lot of the more traditional mechanics that make their way into more modern games.

However, a couple nits to pick.

The OB (Order of Battle) for both sides may as well be based on fiction.
The Guards units make an appearance, but there is no mention of the assault armies, no NKVD divisions ect.
The Supply rules are perhaps too simple
There are a lot of double counters... You can use NATO symbols, or pretty pictures of tanks, and of course if you're playing as the Axis there is the option of having censored counters that do away with those nasty SS symbols ... Seems a little redundant IMO.

Also keep in mind that although the rules are simple, it is still a hardcore wargame, expect to spend 40+ hours playing. The last playthrough I did we played for about 4 hours 3 Sunday's a month and it still took us almost 8 months to finish. A lot of this was due to the fact that we had to go through the setup/breakdown process every week which took about an hour total, but each turn still took 45 minutes to an hour and a half each.

However, all that aside The Russian Campaign has stood the test of time remarkably well, and if you can look past the ahistorical stuff it's a good introduction to more complex games.

Bento's suggestion is good too, GMT games produces some very consistently good games incorporating some very innovative mechanics for wargames. They're probably my favorite publisher overall though their complexity tends to range from the medium to high end. I'm very intrigued by Blood and Sand as a possibility for a more casual 'pickup' wargame. It looks like it might your needs fairly well too, though keep in mind it isn't out yet so I can't exactly give it a real endorsement.

*edit* Another note on GMT games. If you want to give a tactical scale (commanding a single battle) a try, you can't possibly go wrong with their Musket and Pike series based on the 17th ca. Kicks off with This Accursed Civil War and there are 3 others in the series so far. Not a beginners wargame though (though the tactical ones rarely are) so might want to hold off on it for a while.

[Dannyalcatraz]

As I recall, Starfire was pretty easy to learn and play, and was pretty nifty to boot.

[Sandwich]

Thanks everyone for the responses. I decided to get Memoir '44, and just picked it up yesterday from a local game shop. They ha Tide of Iron, but I didn't know anything about it, and in hindsight wish a little bit that I had gotten that instead. But whatever is cool.

The rules seem pretty cool, and I like the little miniatures. I'm pretty pumped to play. Also while we were there my friend got Arkham Horror, so I think this weekend will be bad ass.

[Sandwich]

Well, last night we played a couple games of M44 and had a blast. If we continue to like it as much as we do, I may consider buying some of the expansions. Reading about the Campaign Book has me a little interested. I like the idea of a ton of new scenarios that actually influence each other. I'd have to get 2, and possible even 3 of the expansions to enjoy the entirety of that book, though, so I don't know about.

[Punnuendo]

Memoi is one of my favorite games. A real blast.