1) Firing arcs. It's easy with a one-hex ship, but a little more difficult with larger ships.
2) Damage locations. Remember how the X-Wings used to fly across the bow of a Star Destroyer firing at the shield generators? We want that type of visual. Our initial thoughts are that every ship has its own unique points that you can target, detailed in the stat block and marked on the counter itself. Each has an AC and HP, and notes on any additional defences it might have, along with details on what happens to the ship when that target point is destroyed. All exception-based (no overal governing damage chats, just specific weak points detailed in the stat block and marked on the counter). So I'm thinking something like this could appear on the Star Destroyer's card:
Shield Generators (x2)
AC 6, HP 20
Each generator destroyed reduces the ship's shield capability by half. Destroying both removes the ship's sensors capability.
Then two little red blobs on the counter show where they are.
Hmm, I am wondering about the "size" idea... I see why one would make ships of different hex size, but it might create certain problems of "scale". A Borg Cube is frigging huge. (We don#t need to talk about Death Stars).
Unless of course we ignore this for sake of playability.
I like the idea of the indicators. The space on counter is limited, though... Maybe there should be a guideline how many "exception based" areas exist?
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Last edited by Mustrum_Ridcully; 16th June 2009 at 04:45 PM..
Hmm, I am wondering about the "size" idea... I see why one would make ships of different hex size, but it might create certain problems of "scale". A Borg Cube is frigging huge. (We don#t need to talk about Death Stars).
Borg Cubes and Star Destroyers work on this scale (we tried 'em). The Death Star is a battlemap, not a counter.
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I like the idea of the indicators, though. The space on counter is limited, though... Maybe there should be a guideline how many "exception based" areas exist?
Absolutely. I was only thinking a couple or so. The Star Destroyer could have the shield generator ball things and the bridge. Small ships don't need 'em.
Borg Cubes and Star Destroyers work on this scale (we tried 'em). The Death Star is a battlemap, not a counter.
That's why I said we don't need to talk about them.
I don't know what kind of scale you used for space fighters (e.g. do they take one hex, or does a squadron take one hex?) It seems there is a lot of space to them if you tried something like "1 hex = 1 starfighter". I think your illustration above indicates starfighters are smaller than 1 hex.
A propos illustration:
Basically, Fire Arcs can be "exception based"? Each ship has its own, and sets a set of weapons to each firearc?
Maybe one targeting option should always be to disable the weapons at one firing arc? I mean, disabling weapons, shields, life support, sensors, warp is a Star Trek trope That might also warrant some indicating in Federation vessels, maybe a special bonus to attack damage locations.
Do damage locations have their own hit points, does damage transfer between ship and location?
Hmm... Should their be "Campaign Guidelines", on how to create a set of battles, where you can repair crippled ships or take over disabled or destroyed ships?
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I don't know what kind of scale you used for space fighters (e.g. do they take one hex, or does a squadron take one hex?) It seems there is a lot of space to them if you tried something like "1 hex = 1 starfighter". I think your illustration above indicates starfighters are smaller than 1 hex.
That's right; a squadron is a hex. I made a bunch of homemade counters, but I don't have them in a format I can upload here, but it's clear when you have the counters. I need to find someone to design all the counters for me.
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A propos illustration:
Basically, Fire Arcs can be "exception based"? Each ship has its own, and sets a set of weapons to each firearc?
Yup; that's how the above diagram works. A diffeent ship will have those red, blue, green and yellow lines in different places. And the stat blocks already incidate which arcs a weapon can fire in.
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Maybe one targeting option should always be to disable the weapons at one firing arc? I mean, disabling weapons, shields, life support, sensors, warp is a Star Trek trope That might also warrant some indicating in Federation vessels, maybe a special bonus to attack damage locations.
Yup; that's essentially a function of "how much detail do we want?" We could narrow it down as uch as we want, although is that a good exchange in favour of fun gameplay?
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Do damage locations have their own hit points, does damage transfer between ship and location?
For the sake of simplicity, I'd say yes and no respectively.
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Hmm... Should their be "Campaign Guidelines", on how to create a set of battles, where you can repair crippled ships or take over disabled or destroyed ships?
Maybe another book!
In this book, I eventually want a "scenario" section with various scenario setups and goals. For example, it doesn't have to be "kill all the enemy ships"; it could be "destroy this ground target", "board and capture this diplomatic ship", "escape through the asteroid field from the chasing TIE Fighters", etc.
Too many numbers floating around. Velocity, speed points, maneuverability rating, cost to turn, hexes you have to move between each turn. Started to feel like I was back at school.
I guess if you want movement to be something more than "move x hexes per round," then you'll have to put up with some complexity. (Of course, striking the balance is the trick!)
Some questions to think about: How easily did everyone learn the movement rules? Or was it just too much calculation that slowed things down? Since otherwise it worked "really well," is it something that you think could eventually become second nature?
Also: Cost to turn? I thought you dropped that? Or maybe you tried it last night, then dropped it?
I can't help but be reminded of Heroscape -- minis for this would be cool! Out of curiosity, how much, if any, did Heroscape inspire you?
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Last edited by Flatus Maximus; 16th June 2009 at 06:18 PM..
Yup; that's essentially a function of "how much detail do we want?" We could narrow it down as uch as we want, although is that a good exchange in favour of fun gameplay?
It could be as simple as "+1 to attack when targeting hit locations" or an ability that is useable only under an appropriate condition (and maybe only once per combat) and disables a system. (Reduces speed to 0, maneuverability to 1; weapons at this firing arc don't work.)
Or create two additional conditions like "weakened" (simulating disarms) and "slowed" (simulating disabled engines) that can be applied by special attacks or special maneuvers.
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Maybe another book!
"Advanced Spacefight"
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In this book, I eventually want a "scenario" section with various scenario setups and goals. For example, it doesn't have to be "kill all the enemy ships"; it could be "destroy this ground target", "board and capture this diplomatic ship", "escape through the asteroid field from the chasing TIE Fighters", etc.
That sounds interesting. One might want to replay some Wing Commander and TIE Fighter games for ideas.
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Some questions to think about: How easily did everyone learn the movement rules? Or was it just too much calculation that slowed things down? Since otherwise it worked "really well," is it something that you think could eventually become second nature?
It certainly could; I would just prefer it to be a little more accessible to newbies. Dropping the cost per turn helped.
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Also: Cost to turn? I thought you dropped that? Or maybe you tried it last night, then dropped it?
Yup, exactly that. Interestingly, although we spent the first half of the game calculating it in, we found it made no practical difference to the gameplay. Everything continued to move in exactly the same way without it.
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I can't help but be reminded of Heroscape -- minis for this would be cool! Out of curiosity, how much, if any, did Heroscape inspire you?
Or create two additional conditions like "weakened" (simulating disarms) and "slowed" (simulating disabled engines) that can be applied by special attacks or special maneuvers.
Hmmm... yes. That might work. Conditions..... I need to think more about that!
It certainly could; I would just prefer it to be a little more accessible to newbies. Dropping the cost per turn helped.
Hmmm, now that speed points are used only to speed up/down, you may as well do away with them and instead have an Acceleration value for each ship, which would indicate by how many hexes your speed can be increased/decreased in a single turn. I mean, functionally that's what speed point are now -- might as well give them a name that corresponds to their physical interpretation! (Speaking of which, I suggest you replace Velocity with Speed since, technically speaking, velocity (a vector) indicates an object's speed (scalar) and direction -- current Velocity refers only to the ship's speed.)
__________________ It's times like this I wish I had 500 foot bottle of tequila.
Hmmm, now that speed points are used only to speed up/down, you may as well do away with them and instead have an Acceleration value for each ship, which would indicate by how many hexes your speed can be increased/decreased in a single turn. I mean, functionally that's what speed point are now -- might as well give them a name that corresponds to their physical interpretation! (Speaking of which, I suggest you replace Velocity with Speed since, technically speaking, velocity (a vector) indicates an object's speed (scalar) and direction -- current Velocity refers only to the ship's speed.)
Don't get too hung up on terminology at this point - at some point a LOT of it willl change (hit points, auras, etc.)
What do you plan to do with the starships in the long run?Basically have it "serial numbers filed off" style? Or do you want to throw them all out and replace them with unique designs. (Which might reduce the appeal, but avoid any possible legal pitfalls.)
I am asking since I have some "simulationist" suggestions. IIRC, the Enterprise D (Galaxy Class) has:
- 12 Phaser Banks, plus one additional in the Combat Section if the saucer is removed.
- 2 Photon Torpedos, plus one additional in the aft saucer section if it is removed.
The "shtick" of the TNG era Photon Torpedo launchers apparently seemed to be the ability to launch torpedo salvos. That could be a special ability. Maybe once per combat or turn can fire up to 10 torpedoes for the cost of one, but each torpedo has to attack its own target.
Of course, the whole "saucer section removal" thing - as little used as it was in the series - could be its own special ability, too.
Other "concerns" - you might want to make a distinction between energy/gun like weapons and missiles. BSG style defensive systems (Aura) intercept squadrons and missiles, after all.
The "simplest" approach might be to make the type a descriptor and have it only come up when you want a ship to have this ability. (A Star Destroyer Aura doesn't seem to help much in intercepting missiles or torpedoes, judging from the games. )
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What do you plan to do with the starships in the long run?Basically have it "serial numbers filed off" style? Or do you want to throw them all out and replace them with unique designs. (Which might reduce the appeal, but avoid any possible legal pitfalls.)
I'll be using "similar" starships...
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I am asking since I have some "simulationist" suggestions. IIRC, the Enterprise D (Galaxy Class) has:
- 12 Phaser Banks, plus one additional in the Combat Section if the saucer is removed.
- 2 Photon Torpedos, plus one additional in the aft saucer section if it is removed.
The "shtick" of the TNG era Photon Torpedo launchers apparently seemed to be the ability to launch torpedo salvos. That could be a special ability. Maybe once per combat or turn can fire up to 10 torpedoes for the cost of one, but each torpedo has to attack its own target.
Of course, the whole "saucer section removal" thing - as little used as it was in the series - could be its own special ability, too.
Well, I haven't attempted that particular ship yet... a greta page for technical info on shps of various universes is this one:
Other "concerns" - you might want to make a distinction between energy/gun like weapons and missiles. BSG style defensive systems (Aura) intercept squadrons and missiles, after all.
The "simplest" approach might be to make the type a descriptor and have it only come up when you want a ship to have this ability. (A Star Destroyer Aura doesn't seem to help much in intercepting missiles or torpedoes, judging from the games. )
Way ahead of you! That's actually what I was working on before I went to bed last night!
As someone who used to love playing B5 Wars, I was interested to see what you have done. Good work so far.
Quick question. If my ship has a current speed of 10 Hexes and I rotate after 4 hexes, do I continue travelling along my current trajectory and therefore have moved 10 hexes in a straight line or would my move be 4 hexes in a straight line and 6 hexes in a straight line with a 60 degree angle between the two?
I can see the benefit in either way.
1) If a ship only has guns at the front they may want to "strafe" as they go past (I may have mis-used the word strafe
2) You may want to actually turn mid-move
BTW If you want to make the book completely idiot proof you might want to use rotate instead of turn as I am sure you will use the same word with two different meanings (ie. turn=rotate and turn=player's "go").
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The latest is no, you change the direction you fly to with the heading of the ship.
Maybe this option could be described in an Appendix? For more "realism" in the world of Newtonian physics.
Despite having done an Astrophysics degree I have no problem with that as, from what has been stated, the aim is to have a fun cinematic space fighitng game that could reproduce Star Wars type dogfights. I just wanted to clarify.
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