What to Expect from PATHFINDER UNCHAINED!

Check the official thread. You have designers popping up and giving a bit more info. http://paizo.com/products/btpy97vo/...ying-Game-Pathfinder-Unchained-Hardcover#tabs

 

[Starfox]

If you're curious about next year's Pathfinder Unchained, EN World member Starfox has kindly taken the time to compile information from messageboard posts and podcast interviews by the designers. Jason Bulmahn says "This book is not a second edition of Pathfinder. Nor is it intended to be a "rules light" or "essentials" version of Pathfinder."

[h=4]Jason Bulmahn Lead Designer[/h]
Hey there folks,

Couple of points to clean up the discussion and squash some speculation...

1. This book is not a second edition of Pathfinder. Nor is it intended to be a "rules light" or "essentials" version of Pathfinder.

2. This book is designed to let the design team play with the rules in a way that we have not been able to before, revisiting some old designs and tinkering with parts of the game that are otherwise considered "sacred" parts of the system.

3. There will not be a play test for this book. We have been getting years of play test feedback on many of the rules we will be examining in this book. Think of it more as an additional design step as opposed to a "start from scratch" design process.

4. There will not be new iconics for the classes. We will get some new art for them, but we will not be inventing new iconics.

5. There is a veritable mountain of other exciting things in this book that are just too "green" for me to talk about at this time. Expect to hear a lot more in the coming months.

[h=4]Mark Seifter Designer[/h]
I'm really looking forward to getting my hands dirty with Unchained--this kind of stuff is right up my alley and plays to my strengths in a way that my minor contributions to the end of the Monster Codex cycle did not!

[h=4]Jason Bulmahn Lead Designer[/h]
Hey there folks,

While it is way too early for me to be giving out specifics, I will mention a few points here...

1. The classes mentioned fall into a special category in my mind. That being: Classes I would do differently today than the way they were done years ago during their initial design phase. Its not that we dislike them, it is just that they do not quite live up to our current design philosophies here in the office. This is a chance for us to revisit them in a safe environment, while allowing all of you to play with the results.

2. There will be things for everyone in this book. Although we only mentioned four classes, that list might grow. In addition, there are a number of other systems and rules bits that will apply to a wide variety of characters, giving them new ways to play the game. I think, as we get closer and are able to share some additional details, folks are going to be very excited about these options.

3. Careful with the wish-listing. I'd prefer folks not set up false expectations for this book. Its going to have a lot of things no one expects, and probably in the end, be missing some things that you might think are a no-brainer. Lets just be careful about wishing for the sky. In the end, the pieces of this book will still need to work with a lot of the game, so that does put some limits on what we can do, even if we are tinkering with other big systems.

At any rate.. glad to see a lot of enthusiasm here. We are excited to be working on this awesome book.

[h=4]Other Quotes[/h]

Jason Bulmahn: For those who are interested, yes I am the one designing the summoner. As for the ideas of other folks around the office, I always showcase off my concepts and let others throw in their ideas, concerns, and criticisms. Its how the process works.

Vic Wertz, Chief Technical Officer: [...]a couple of the classes that are not called out in the Classes chapter on the outline rely heavily on systems that are called out in other chapters.

Jason Bulmahn: I can say, with 100% certainty, that if you choose to work freely with the systems in this book, there will be new, cool options for everyone at the table. Some of these address concerns in very different ways and would affect the overall balance dynamic at your table (such as the martial vs caster dynamic). That is all I am going to say about it at this time. Seriously.. For real-sies.

[h=4]From the Announcement Banquet[/h]
Ssalarn: Was at the banquet when they announced this, got the impression that this is going to be kind of like a "Pathfinder Essentials"; JB indicated that they were going to make the Barbarian easier to run at the table, present a nerfed and better balanced version of the Summoner, a full BAB monk, and hinted at "improving" the Rogue. Should be interesting.

Question: Cool. What news had they on the Shaman and the Skald?

Ssalarn: Virtually none. Jason did acknowledge that both classes existed, but made little reference to the mechanics and didn't really show any clips that displayed Shaman or Skald goodies (though he did have a solid and glorious 3 minutes where a double-page spread of Arcanist archetypes just kind of hung out on the screen).

[h=4]From the Know Direction Podcast[/h]
Kudako: Know Direction recorded the Pathfinder RPG Rules Q&A, which contains some really interesting spoilers about what's (probably) in the upcoming Pathfinder Unchained[...] is also mentioned in the Question Round towards the end of the clip.

[video=youtube;pTgPSmTnrY0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTgPSmTnrY0#t=865[/video]
​

Some of the highlights:

• +2 Skill Points for everyone!
• Barbarians get temporary hit points from rage! (no more dying the second you drop into the negatives)
• New mundane Crafting System!
• Fatigue resource management system for martials!
• Eidolon themes![/quote]

Cthulhudrew: More highlights from the podcast:

• Rogues get Danger Sense instead of Trap Sense (and it is much more awesome!)- gives bonus on Perception checks to avoid being surprised in addition to regular Trap Sense.
• Sounds like they are going to make efforts to explain where/how changes will exist so that it will be easier to drop the reworked classes in place of current ones (ie, Danger Sense functions in all ways as Trap Sense for archetypes, etc.)
• 2 tiers of skills- Adventuring skills and other skills (craft, etc.) for which you can use your extra skill points. Background skills (like Knowledge, but very specific).
• "Totally messing with the Action Economy." (Felt that line needed a specific callout. lol)
• Rogue gets new conditions to inflict on people (like hamper- cuts speed in half for a round and can't take 5 foot steps); bonus on attack rolls by weakening defenses of foes.
• Redoing Rogue and Barbarian talents.
• Barbarian- making "math" of rage less complicated. Keeping Raging Swim, but now just gives a swim speed.
• Summoner- must pick an Outsider type when first get eidolon. Choice you make will flavor its abilities and evolutions.

Lots of other systems as well:

• Can burn your fatigue pool to do new things (what you can do is determined by your feat selection; ex. do even more damage with Power Attack by making yourself more tire). Fighters- with more feats- will benefit the most. Martial characters get biggest fatigue pools (it is based off BAB and Con mod). Need a feat to buy into the system (though if you like it, just let martials have it).
• Revised magic item system- items are more story based, unlock powers as you level, as opposed to getting bonuses all up front.
• Monster creation system- to help make it less fiddly with the numbers and direct you in a better way to get the monster you want; less time consuming.

​

 

[Starfox]

Highlights for those who don't want to read through 20+ pages of the Pazio forums:

Was at the banquet when they announced this, got the impression that this is going to be kind of like a "Pathfinder Essentials"; JB indicated that they were going to make the Barbarian easier to run at the table, present a nerfed and better balanced version of the Summoner, a full BAB monk, and hinted at "improving" the Rogue. Should be interesting.

Question from thread: Cool. What news had they on the Shaman and the Skald? [/b]

Virtually none. Jason did acknowledge that both classes existed, but made little reference to the mechanics and didn't really show any clips that displayed Shaman or Skald goodies (though he did have a solid and glorious 3 minutes where a double-page spread of Arcanist archetypes just kind of hung out on the screen).

Hey there folks,

Couple of points to clean up the discussion and squash some speculation...

1. This book is not a second edition of Pathfinder. Nor is it intended to be a "rules light" or "essentials" version of Pathfinder.

2. This book is designed to let the design team play with the rules in a way that we have not been able to before, revisiting some old designs and tinkering with parts of the game that are otherwise considered "sacred" parts of the system.

3. There will not be a play test for this book. We have been getting years of play test feedback on many of the rules we will be examining in this book. Think of it more as an additional design step as opposed to a "start from scratch" design process.

4. There will not be new iconics for the classes. We will get some new art for them, but we will not be inventing new iconics.

5. There is a veritable mountain of other exciting things in this book that are just too "green" for me to talk about at this time. Expect to hear a lot more in the coming months.

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands dirty with Unchained--this kind of stuff is right up my alley and plays to my strengths in a way that my minor contributions to the end of the Monster Codex cycle did not!

Hey there folks,

While it is way too early for me to be giving out specifics, I will mention a few points here...

1. The classes mentioned fall into a special category in my mind. That being: Classes I would do differently today than the way they were done years ago during their initial design phase. Its not that we dislike them, it is just that they do not quite live up to our current design philosophies here in the office. This is a chance for us to revisit them in a safe environment, while allowing all of you to play with the results.

2. There will be things for everyone in this book. Although we only mentioned four classes, that list might grow. In addition, there are a number of other systems and rules bits that will apply to a wide variety of characters, giving them new ways to play the game. I think, as we get closer and are able to share some additional details, folks are going to be very excited about these options.

3. Careful with the wish-listing. I'd prefer folks not set up false expectations for this book. Its going to have a lot of things no one expects, and probably in the end, be missing some things that you might think are a no-brainer. Lets just be careful about wishing for the sky. In the end, the pieces of this book will still need to work with a lot of the game, so that does put some limits on what we can do, even if we are tinkering with other big systems.

At any rate.. glad to see a lot of enthusiasm here. We are excited to be working on this awesome book.

For those who are interested, yes I am the one designing the summoner. As for the ideas of other folks around the office, I always showcase off my concepts and let others throw in their ideas, concerns, and criticisms. Its how the process works.

[...]a couple of the classes that are not called out in the Classes chapter on the outline rely heavily on systems that are called out in other chapters.

I can say, with 100% certainty, that if you choose to work freely with the systems in this book, there will be new, cool options for everyone at the table. Some of these address concerns in very different ways and would affect the overall balance dynamic at your table (such as the martial vs caster dynamic). That is all I am going to say about it at this time. Seriously.. For real-sies.

Know Direction recorded the Pathfinder RPG Rules Q&A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTgPSmTnrY0#t=865), which contains some really interesting spoilers about what's (probably) in the upcoming Pathfinder Unchained[...] is also mentioned in the Question Round towards the end of the clip.

Some of the highlights:

+2 Skill Points for everyone!

Barbarians get temporary hit points from rage! (no more dying the second you drop into the negatives)

New mundane Crafting System!

Fatigue resource management system for martials!

Eidolon themes!

More highlights from the podcast:

Rogues get Danger Sense instead of Trap Sense (and it is much more awesome!)- gives bonus on Perception checks to avoid being surprised in addition to regular Trap Sense.

Sounds like they are going to make efforts to explain where/how changes will exist so that it will be easier to drop the reworked classes in place of current ones (ie, Danger Sense functions in all ways as Trap Sense for archetypes, etc.)

2 tiers of skills- Adventuring skills and other skills (craft, etc.) for which you can use your extra skill points. Background skills (like Knowledge, but very specific).

"Totally messing with the Action Economy."

(Felt that line needed a specific callout. lol)

Rogue gets new conditions to inflict on people (like hamper- cuts speed in half for a round and can't take 5 foot steps); bonus on attack rolls by weakening defenses of foes.

Redoing Rogue and Barbarian talents.

Barbarian- making "math" of rage less complicated. Keeping Raging Swim, but now just gives a swim speed.

Summoner- must pick an Outsider type when first get eidolon. Choice you make will flavor its abilities and evolutions.

Lots of other systems as well:

Can burn your fatigue pool to do new things (what you can do is determined by your feat selection; ex. do even more damage with Power Attack by making yourself more tire). Fighters- with more feats- will benefit the most. Martial characters get biggest fatigue pools (it is based off BAB and Con mod). Need a feat to buy into the system (though if you like it, just let martials have it).

Revised magic item system- items are more story based, unlock powers as you level, as opposed to getting bonuses all up front.

Monster creation system- to help make it less fiddly with the numbers and direct you in a better way to get the monster you want; less time consuming.

 

[Morrus]

Huh. That's weird! I just promoted [MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION]'s post to an article, and formatted it up for that. So that first post is my formatted version of Starfox's post below it.

 

[Dragonblade]

So its taking the best of 4e, 5e, and 13th Age (and other games too, of course). Great!

Reading about it is actually getting me interested in playing Pathfinder again after getting totally burned out on it.

They still need a 2nd edition, though.

 

[Starfox]

Huh. That's weird! I just promoted [MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION]'s post to an article, and formatted it up for that. So that first post is my formatted version of Starfox's post below it.

Hey, I want to BOTH laugh at and XP this post... But I can't.

Kudos for the lovely formatting! And here I was a bit worried I over-quoted.

 

[sidonunspa]

Umm, how is messing with the action economy (core part of the combat system), a new system where martial maneuvers granting fatigue, and redesigning entire classes NOT a new edition?

I guess this is pathfinders 3.5?

I’m impressed, WOTC got hell for their 3.5, but pathfinder people seem to love the idea of this 3.P.5

guess it was mostly WoTC hate

 

[Morrus]

Umm, how is messing with the action economy (core part of the combat system), a new system where martial maneuvers granting fatigue, and redesigning entire classes NOT a new edition?

I guess this is pathfinders 3.5?

I’m impressed, WOTC got hell for their 3.5, but pathfinder people seem to love the idea of this 3.P.5

guess it was mostly WoTC hate

I don't see it as remotely comparably to 3.5. The comparision is to Unearthed Arcana - a book of optional alternate rules.

And I don't hate WotC.

Now, if Paizo uses this book as the core rules for every future product thereafter, then I'll grant you that it's a new edition. If they don't, then it's just an extra book with some alternate rules in it.

 

[Starfox]

I actually agree this is if not 1.5 so at least 1.1. I didn't mind 3.5 so much, and I think Pathfinder Unchained with mostly backwards compatibility but some revision in key areas is a good idea. Granted, of course, that they do it well.

 

[Perram]

I don't see it as remotely comparably to 3.5. The comparision is to Unearthed Arcana - a book of optional alternate rules.

And I don't hate WotC.

Now, if Paizo uses this book as the core rules for every future product thereafter, then I'll grant you that it's a new edition. If they don't, then it's just an extra book with some alternate rules in it.

Yeah, I don't see this as a version release or anything of the sort. They may be using it as a play ground to test future ideas, but thats probably true of most books. You're right, this is Pathfinder's Unearthed Arcana. There is even a question on if any of this will be usable in PFS.