Preview The ALCHEMIST Class From A TOUCH OF CLASS For 5E
  • Preview The ALCHEMIST Class From A TOUCH OF CLASS For 5E


    A Touch of Class, the new 70-page full-color softcover class book for 5E, introduces seven new classes to your 5th Edition games, along with a range of associated subclasses, feats, spells, items, backgrounds, and more. The Kickstarter launches next week, on Monday, 3rd April. Here's a quick preview of a couple of pages of the Alchemist, one of the 7 classes featured (the others are the Cardcaster, Diabolist, Feywalker, Morph, Noble, and Occultist).

    UPDATE: THIS KICKSTARTER HAS NOW LAUNCHED!







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    Comments 28 Comments
    1. ddaley's Avatar
      ddaley -
      Interesting. But, the ability to craft and throw a bomb in a single action seems odd. If one of my players plays this class, I think I'll allow them to craft their bombs during downtime (rest), and then use them during combat.
    1. dave2008's Avatar
      dave2008 -
      Quote Originally Posted by ddaley View Post
      Interesting. But, the ability to craft and throw a bomb in a single action seems odd. If one of my players plays this class, I think I'll allow them to craft their bombs during downtime (rest), and then use them during combat.
      I tend to agree - treat them like ammunition
    1. jamesjhaeck's Avatar
      jamesjhaeck -
      That choice makes total sense to me, and it doesn't affect balance in any significant way. As long as those basic bombs are essentially at-will attacks, the class works as intended.
    1. mdusty -
      Looks like bombs only hit a single target (no splash damage until 9th level). So until 9th level, it's basically a short ranged only longbow. I agree though, it does seem 'odd' to say that an alchemist can craft and throw the bomb as a single action. Maybe just house rule it to say that the 'bombs' are constructed beforehand and included in the alchemist supply kit and stays inert until the alchemist pulls the pin or something like that.

      Also, will the extended Advanced Studies from another EN5sider article be included in this kickstarter? I think it was the mutation, illumination, and regeneration sciences. There was also a smokepowder science as well in one of the Keep Your Powder Dry articles too. I have a player that is playing the current alchemist version with the mutation advanced study.
    1. dave2008's Avatar
      dave2008 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jumblejacks View Post
      That choice makes total sense to me, and it doesn't affect balance in any significant way. As long as those basic bombs are essentially at-will attacks, the class works as intended.
      Yes, but it could also would work as intended if you had to prepare the bombs first. It is not the mechanics factor for me, but the RP factor. I have a hard time visualizing someone mixing together volatile materials, corking them in a fragile container, and then throwing them; all in the same amount of time it takes someone else to draw, aim, and shoot an arrow.
    1. ddaley's Avatar
      ddaley -
      I have a feeling that this feature was added for balance (to make it function more like a spell), but logically doesn't pan out. Maybe for balance, they could have this attack do residual damage on the following round... maybe half damage due to residual fire/acid/cold? But, remove the creation of the device during the attack segment.

      Quote Originally Posted by dave2008 View Post
      Yes, but it could also would work as intended if you had to prepare the bombs first. It is not the mechanics factor for me, but the RP factor. I have a hard time visualizing someone mixing together volatile materials, corking them in a fragile container, and then throwing them; all in the same amount of time it takes someone else to draw, aim, and shoot an arrow.
    1. jamesjhaeck's Avatar
      jamesjhaeck -
      Quote Originally Posted by mdusty View Post
      Looks like bombs only hit a single target (no splash damage until 9th level). So until 9th level, it's basically a short ranged only longbow. I agree though, it does seem 'odd' to say that an alchemist can craft and throw the bomb as a single action. Maybe just house rule it to say that the 'bombs' are constructed beforehand and included in the alchemist supply kit and stays inert until the alchemist pulls the pin or something like that.

      Also, will the extended Advanced Studies from another EN5sider article be included in this kickstarter? I think it was the mutation, illumination, and regeneration sciences. There was also a smokepowder science as well in one of the Keep Your Powder Dry articles too. I have a player that is playing the current alchemist version with the mutation advanced study.
      The Sciences of Illumination, Mutation, and Regeneration will all appear in this book. The subclass from Keep Your Powder Dry isn't being reprinted here, however.
    1. jamesjhaeck's Avatar
      jamesjhaeck -
      Quote Originally Posted by dave2008 View Post
      Yes, but it could also would work as intended if you had to prepare the bombs first. It is not the mechanics factor for me, but the RP factor. I have a hard time visualizing someone mixing together volatile materials, corking them in a fragile container, and then throwing them; all in the same amount of time it takes someone else to draw, aim, and shoot an arrow.
      I totally agree. All I mean is that as long as the bombs essentially function as at-will attacks in combat, you can houserule the RP factor as much as you want without breaking the class.
    1. dave2008's Avatar
      dave2008 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jumblejacks View Post
      I totally agree. All I mean is that as long as the bombs essentially function as at-will attacks in combat, you can houserule the RP factor as much as you want without breaking the class.
      True
    1. ddaley's Avatar
      ddaley -
      Well, I think the intention is for this feature to function like a cantrip... unlimited and on demand use. But, forcing the player to prepare the devices prior to an encounter lessens its usefulness somewhat. That's why I was thinking they should add in residual damage on the following round... to make up for the slight loss of usefulness. I think that is what I would try anyways.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jumblejacks View Post
      I totally agree. All I mean is that as long as the bombs essentially function as at-will attacks in combat, you can houserule the RP factor as much as you want without breaking the class.
    1. jaycrockett -
      I think the point of the mix on the fly rule, as it was also on the pathfinder alchemist, is so no one else could use them.
    1. ddaley's Avatar
      ddaley -
      Maybe... the alchemist could still create one during combat and hand it to an ally, no? And, that still makes little logical sense.

      Quote Originally Posted by jaycrockett View Post
      I think the point of the mix on the fly rule, as it was also on the pathfinder alchemist, is so no one else could use them.
    1. UngeheuerLich's Avatar
      UngeheuerLich -
      Seems like a very unstable bomb. Maybe I would charge an action and allow to pass it around but it explodes early on a 1 to 3 on a d6. You may throw it as part if that action yourself without incurring such a risk.
    1. TwoSix -
      Quote Originally Posted by ddaley View Post
      Maybe... the alchemist could still create one during combat and hand it to an ally, no? And, that still makes little logical sense.
      If, as an alchemist, you want to use your action to give someone else a bomb so they can throw it on their action for cantrip level damage, more power to you. You're not a power gamer I'm worried about.

      Heck, even giving other people the bombs is pretty much equivalent to giving them a free cantrip with poor scaling. Free cantrips are worth a small racial ability, at best. Giving the alchemist the ability to hand out bombs, while obviously not intended, would be a small power up at best.
    1. ddaley's Avatar
      ddaley -
      I wasn't saying that it was a useful ability. Someone else was saying that the reason that the alchemist could craft and throw a bomb in a single action was to prevent them from giving them to other characters. I was just arguing that they could still give them to other characters... Also, wouldn't make much sense that they could ONLY craft them during combat.

      Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
      If, as an alchemist, you want to use your action to give someone else a bomb so they can throw it on their action for cantrip level damage, more power to you. You're not a power gamer I'm worried about.

      Heck, even giving other people the bombs is pretty much equivalent to giving them a free cantrip with poor scaling. Free cantrips are worth a small racial ability, at best. Giving the alchemist the ability to hand out bombs, while obviously not intended, would be a small power up at best.
    1. Antonlowe's Avatar
      Antonlowe -
      When I play a PF alchemist. I describe myself mixing the compounds during a rest, but to make them explosive requires a bit of magical energy which I add as I am throwing them. Solves most of the RP/Min/Maxing problems.
    1. ddaley's Avatar
      ddaley -
      That sounds reasonable. Not sure the ones in PF are more powerful or not, but doesn't seem like it would disrupt the balance to allow the alchemist to make extra and distribute them. They are not over powered compared to regular ranged weapons... Just more interesting I think. I would probably make them a little more powerful. I would either make them do 1/2 damage on the following round or possible stun the target (on a hit) for an action (they would miss their next action, whether it is this round or the next) if they fail a save.

      Quote Originally Posted by Antonlowe View Post
      When I play a PF alchemist. I describe myself mixing the compounds during a rest, but to make them explosive requires a bit of magical energy which I add as I am throwing them. Solves most of the RP/Min/Maxing problems.
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Yeah, it just requires a special bit of last minute alchemy to activate it.


      Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app
    1. Ancalagon's Avatar
      Ancalagon -
      We had a pretty big thread about alchemist's powers as NOT as "X per day" or "At will" power, but as ammunition (bombs, potions, charms etc) that could be crafted in advance and stocked up. The advantage of this is that it's very satisfying from a RP point of view and it's a strong differentiation element from other spell-casters.

      The problem is that it's *extremely* hard to balance. The thread (which was lost in the database crash) never found a satisfactory solution. Weight/encumbrance? Ok, but what about a bag of holding dis-balancing the class? Cost-based? Sure, but then suddenly the power of a class is related to how much money the party gets? Time to create? Ok, but that makes balancing reliant on the amount of off-time between adventurers. Or an alchemist could "nova" in one fight and then have nothing for the rest of the adventure.

      One of the better suggestions I saw was that alchemy required rare resources (as opposed to gold in general), I first came across in an odd book I reviewed (see https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/16/16808.phtml , the chapter on alchemy, for details). The problem with this of course is that it's still hard for the GM to determine how much of this rare resource should the PC have access to. There is no clear guideline here...

      So given all that, I'm quite willing to "forgive" wonky bomb creation rules. It gets *reallllly* complicated otherwise.
    1. Zardnaar's Avatar
      Zardnaar -
      I would treat the alchemisy class as outright magical so you could use reasonably mundane ingrediants doing kewl things via class abilities.
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