Pathfinder 2 Playtest Preorders, Podcasts, & "Pathfinder 1.5"
  • Pathfinder 2 Playtest Preorders, Podcasts, & "Pathfinder 1.5"


    In today's Pathfinder 2nd Edition news roundup, the playtest book preorders go live, Bulmahn and Radney-McFarland appear on a podcast, and what it would take to make "Pathfinder 1.5". As always this information will be added to the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compiled Info Page!







    • The Pathfinder Playtest book preorders are now open! You can per-order your playtest book, adventure, and flip-mat between now and May 1st. Of course, you'll b able to grab them for free in August as PDFs if you don't want the physical playtest books.
    • At Gary Con, Jason Bulmahn and Stephen Radney-McFarland hosted a seminar about Pathfinder 2nd Edition. You can listen to it on the Plot Points Podcast. The podcast is about 90 minutes long.
    • In response to how much information the Paizo preview blogs contain -- "The blogs are not going to be dropping huge excerpts of the book. There is a very simple reason for this... it is still in edit, and layout. Then it needs to be copy fit and go through a few more rounds of edit. To top it off, we are still making changes and will, much to our publishers chagrin, continue to do so until the very last moment. That said... we also had to announce it if we were going to let retailers and stores have a chance to participate in the release. Thats just how the distribution system works. So... the best we can do right now is to give everyone an idea of how things work. We've already leaked things that have been changed and I am trying to keep that to a minimum so that the game we are talking about is the game you are going to get to playtest. It's not ideal... but it is the best we can do right now. I hope that helps understand where we are at." (Bulmahn)
    • Vic Wertz talks a little about what it would take for a third party publisher to use the OGL to produce a "Pathfinder 1.5" (or "D&D 3.85") -- "There's an inherent difficulty in that concept, though. If you've been reading playtest feedback—or even if you haven't, but you just know a bunch of gamers—you will know that there's a spectrum of desire here. On one end, there are players want no changes whatsoever; on the other, there are players who want changes to anything and everything to be considered. Most people are somewhere in between. Paizo has staked out a spot on that spectrum. Playtest feedback might move us one way or the other a little bit, but as far as broad strokes go, the playtest will show you where we stand. (In our opinion, it's not all that far from 1st Edition.) Any "3.85" concept has to have SOME changes—otherwise, it's just First Edition, and there's no point republishing that, because we're keeping it in print in softcover and PDF. So 3.85 cannot capture the "no changes" audience. A successful 3.85 publisher would therefore need to capture a viable number of people who think 1E needs to change, but who also think that 2E is changing too much. Are there enough of those to form a viable audience for your work? Even if there are enough, here's where it gets really challenging: By definition, that group of people has strong opinions about what they want. But they will not be of a single mind—that is, even if they generally agree on how much things should change, they won't necessarily agree on what should change, or on how each of those things should be changed. There's not some magic set of precise changes you can make to capture them all. Some of the choices you make will lose some of them. Can you make enough of the right decisions to keep enough of them (assuming there were even enough of them to start with)?"
    • Mark Seifter on "flipping" enemy criticals -- "The best part comes when you're cruising along doing pretty well with your combo and punishing enemy crits (maybe even with a paladin buddy to also hit and debuff when they crit your druid), only to come across an opponent who does something extra and really nasty on a critical hit! Flips it back around for a double flip. Jason was the main designer of these kinds of flips, where you punish an enemy critical."
    • Seifter talks some more about rules language and terminology -- "We want language that can both be quite precise, with rules terms used consistently, but also sound plain, natural, and elegant rather than clunky. We think we've figured out a way to have our cake and eat it though, thanks to Logan's masterstroke of making certain rules elements act as nouns, certain rules elements (like actions) act as verbs, and certain rules elements act as adjectives and then allow natural language usage. So for instance, the blog mentions the Stride action, so we can say "whenever you Stride, you ignore difficult terrain" or "While Striding, you gain concealment against any reactions" or "Whenever an enemy in your reach Strides" or any other form of the verb. Like many of these wording-based decisions, this is the kind of thing that might seem like it could be "obvious" in hindsight but still takes inspiration to realize."
    • Seifter comments on the rogue's Instant Opening ability -- "Instant Opening might not seem as cool as it actually is because it might be easy to assume that it requires some kind of check (or a failed save, or a roll of some kind) in order to work. But it actually works automatically. So one action from you equals two rounds of AC debuffs and all your sneak attack-related favorites. And it's not flanking, so all-around vision-type abilities won't help them."
    • 30-40 class feats to choose from? "Compared to '3 or 4' class feats, the fighter alone has more than 10 times that number (not going to be more specific because, as Jason has said, we aren't through with copyfitting, so we don't know how many are going to fit)." (Seifter)
    Comments 91 Comments
    1. Polyhedral Columbia's Avatar
      Polyhedral Columbia -
      Glad Logan brought down the inspiration to write in precise but natural language. Inspiration from the Pathfinder gods!
    1. shidaku's Avatar
      shidaku -
      Awww shoot, no more PF1 hardcovers...gonna have to go down to the game store and stock up!
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      I went for the softcover.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      The bit about lots of class-specific feats really sounds like the 4e power system to me.
    1. Aldarc's Avatar
      Aldarc -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      The bit about lots of class-specific feats really sounds like the 4e power system to me.
      Really? This sounds far more akin to d20 Modern, True20, and even Pathfinder, which has a number of classes with class-specific talents (i.e. "class feats") than it does 4e.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Aldarc View Post
      Really? This sounds far more akin to d20 Modern, True20, and even Pathfinder, which has a number of classes with class-specific talents (i.e. "class feats") than it does 4e.
      Similar ideas. I imagine they could just be taking the generic talents/ rage powers/ tricks half the classes got and making them feats, so you can swap in generic feats if you wish.
      Still sounds like picking through a lot of options every level...
    1. Arilyn's Avatar
      Arilyn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      Similar ideas. I imagine they could just be taking the generic talents/ rage powers/ tricks half the classes got and making them feats, so you can swap in generic feats if you wish.
      Still sounds like picking through a lot of options every level...
      But that's the beauty of PF, lots of little building blocks.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Arilyn View Post
      But that's the beauty of PF, lots of little building blocks.
      It's a feature/bug for sure. Or... a beauty/beast if you will.
      Half my table would love it, as they enjoy spending a free evening building and redesigning their characters. The other half of my table would hate it, as spending 30 minutes going through a half-dozen powers and deciding which one is best is a chore to them. When I was running PF1, a couple of my players occasionally levelled up every other level, just doing hp and saves and such but skipping the class features because of the work involved. Or they'd show up without a levelled character and just do that work when the spotlight as elsewhere during the game. And I have not-fun memories of having to make high-level replacement characters mid-session after a death or a new player coming into the game...

      I remember my wife being unimpressed by that work especially with her high level rogue in my Rise of the Runelords game. Because so often it was "what talent that I passed on my last two times do I want to take now?"
    1. Birmy's Avatar
      Birmy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      I went for the softcover.
      Me, too. The collector in me was like, "LIMITED HARDCOVER! GO GO GO GO GO!!!" but then the rest of my brain kicked in and said, "Dude: it's a playtest," and I knew I couldn't really justify it to myself.
    1. Superchunk77's Avatar
      Superchunk77 -
      Meh, I'll wait for the PDF and save my money for the hardcover of the final rulebook next year.
    1. Erdric Dragin's Avatar
      Erdric Dragin -
      There is a huge base who will stick to PF1e, they're tying to delude us into thinking there isn't as a selling point for PF2e. PF1e doesn't need much changing, cleaning up and updating some inconsistencies sure, but nothing huge.
    1. Slit518's Avatar
      Slit518 -
      It would be nice if they offered free PDFs for Pathfinder 2, instead of you know, having people buy some books that they can ship to the house, and eventually update the rules on anyway.
    1. Saelorn's Avatar
      Saelorn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Erdric Dragin View Post
      There is a huge base who will stick to PF1e, they're tying to delude us into thinking there isn't as a selling point for PF2e. PF1e doesn't need much changing, cleaning up and updating some inconsistencies sure, but nothing huge.
      It's unlikely that many people will stick with PF1 after PF2 comes out, since it's basically an admission that PF1 is both flawed and dead. I mean, look at what happened to 3.5, after PF1 came out.

      The question remains as to whether there's enough of an audience to sustain a 3.85 edition, after accounting for everyone who is happy with 5E and PF2, and whether anyone will take up the challenge of trying to create that game.
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Quote Originally Posted by Erdric Dragin View Post
      they're tying to delude us into thinking there isn't
      Are they?
    1. Millennial Grognard's Avatar
      Millennial Grognard -
      Quote Originally Posted by Saelorn View Post
      It's unlikely that many people will stick with PF1 after PF2 comes out, since it's basically an admission that PF1 is both flawed and dead. I mean, look at what happened to 3.5, after PF1 came out.

      The question remains as to whether there's enough of an audience to sustain a 3.85 edition, after accounting for everyone who is happy with 5E and PF2, and whether anyone will take up the challenge of trying to create that game.
      Look at what? Doesn't 3.5 STILL come out over Pathfinder on Roll20?
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Quote Originally Posted by Millennial Grognard View Post
      Look at what? Doesn't 3.5 STILL come out over Pathfinder on Roll20?
      Nope.

      http://blog.roll20.net/post/17114250...report-q4-2017
    1. Millennial Grognard's Avatar
      Millennial Grognard -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      Oh derp! I had those two mixed up in my mind!
    1. Shasarak's Avatar
      Shasarak -
      Quote Originally Posted by Birmy View Post
      Me, too. The collector in me was like, "LIMITED HARDCOVER! GO GO GO GO GO!!!" but then the rest of my brain kicked in and said, "Dude: it's a playtest," and I knew I couldn't really justify it to myself.
      I was going to go for the collecters book and on the other hand that Dragon art looks too good to cover over.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Slit518 View Post
      It would be nice if they offered free PDFs for Pathfinder 2, instead of you know, having people buy some books that they can ship to the house, and eventually update the rules on anyway.
      They are offering free PDFs of the playtest.
    1. Pravus's Avatar
      Pravus -
      ninja'd
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