The Goblin - Pathfinder 2's Newest Ancestry!
  • The Goblin - Pathfinder 2's Newest Ancestry!


    Today's Pathfinder 2nd Edition update is all about the Goblin! Paizo introduces the first (and the newest) of the game's Ancestries. As always, this information will be added to the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compiled Info Page!






    • Goblins! Last night Paizo revealed the first of the Ancestries - the Goblin!
      • Boosts to Dexterity and Charisma plus one other ability score of your choice
      • Flaw to Wisdom
      • 6 hit points
      • Speed 25'
      • Common and Goblin starting language
      • Darvision (see in the dark as though it were daylight)
      • Sample Ancestry feats --
        • Burn It -- bonus damage on fire spells or alchemical items, and increases persistent fire damage by 1 points.
        • Junk Tinkerer -- craft ordinary, poor quality items out of junk.
        • Razor Teeth -- 1d6 piercing damage.
        • Very Sneaky -- move additional 5' when taking the sneak action (normally half speed) and possibly render target flat-footed.

    • Jason Bulmahn on including Goblins -- "Concerning goblins and how they fit in Golarion: Times change and so do people's opinions. Goblins as PCs have been a part of our world since the first "We Be Goblins" adventure. Many of the comments here echo those from back during the launch of 3.0 when Half-Orcs returned to the game as a player choice. There was a lot of conflict at first, but the tone of them shifted over time. We always knew this would be a bit controversial and that there were some who would loudly proclaim "not at my table" and I get that. It's your table and your game after all. We are moving forward, trying to allow players to explore these characters, their culture, and their viewpoint. We are hoping to give you plenty of reasons, both mechanically and story-driven, to allow goblins in your game."
    • Mark Seifter on that flexible ability boost -- "It's one of ways you get to really customize your ancestry to fit your character concept, melding the story and life of your character to the mechanics. Plus you can play the class you want without worrying about as much of an uphill battle with ability scores if you don't match the bonuses from the race with the class you had it mind. Incidentally, it provides a really nice design space to much more easily create and handle subraces that have different ability modifiers... "
    • Mark Seifter confirms that repairing an item is a untrained use but building is trained only.
    • Seifter on failed saves vs. dominate -- "the wording is subtly different now. Anyway, because it implies what you've said here, I wouldn't say "if you critically fail your save against dominate, you are completely under the spellcaster's control". There is still some possibility to resist a particularly abhorrent new order on a critical failure, but you're going to have to fulfill that first command no matter what."
    • Community News --
    Comments 110 Comments
    1. Michael Mandt's Avatar
      Michael Mandt -
      I saw this coming. Pathfinder has had it hard up for goblins for a long time now and it makes sense that they would add it to the Core.. If you don't want them in your games, just don't allow them at your table.
    1. houser2112's Avatar
      houser2112 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      [*]Flaw to Wisdom
      Has this flaw mechanic been explained anywhere?
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Quote Originally Posted by houser2112 View Post
      Has this flaw mechanic been explained anywhere?
      No, but I assume itís just terminology for bonuses and penalties. Could be wrong though!
    1. Keyframe18's Avatar
      Keyframe18 -
      Quote Originally Posted by houser2112 View Post
      Has this flaw mechanic been explained anywhere?
      It just means they have a -2 Wis stat adjustment.
    1. houser2112's Avatar
      houser2112 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Keyframe18 View Post
      It just means they have a -2 Wis stat adjustment.
      How boring. "Flaw" in other games usually means something more substantial than a mere flat penalty. Why wouldn't they just list it with the other ability bonuses if it shares the same mechanic?
    1. Keyframe18's Avatar
      Keyframe18 -
      in the original article on paizo's blog, they list it right with the bonuses.

      "It includes the base goblin ability boosts (Dexterity and Charisma), ability flaw (Wisdom),"
    1. Kaodi -
      So compared to PF1 every player race is going to have an additional flexible ability boost I guess, and humans will have two of them? And the way it is worded I am assuming that since "boosts" and "flaws" are described separately that you can use a flex boost to cover a flaw?

      Edit: Has it been said yet that PF2 would use the generous model of Starfinder's level based stat boosts?
    1. Kaodi -
      Having just watched the two Dead Rising movies I appreciate how Goblin Junk Tinkerers now set the standard for Golarion's apocalyptic zombie outbreaks.
    1. Nikosandros's Avatar
      Nikosandros -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kaodi View Post
      So compared to PF1 every player race is going to have an additional flexible ability boost I guess, and humans will have two of them? And the way it is worded I am assuming that since "boosts" and "flaws" are described separately that you can use a flex boost to cover a flaw?
      It is stated explicitly in the blog post:
      You could even gain a boost in Wisdom to negate your flaw!
      Quote Originally Posted by Kaodi View Post
      Edit: Has it been said yet that PF2 would use the generous model of Starfinder's level based stat boosts?
      Something similar:
      You'll also amp up several of your ability scores every 5 levels. The process might be familiar to those of you who've been playing Starfinder for the last several months! There are, of course, a few tweaks, and we made all ability boosts work the same way instead of being different at 1st level. Learn it once, use it in perpetuity.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      I donít get why itís a boost to Charisma and a flaw to Wisdom. If anything, I would expect the opposite. Goblins arenít known for being smooth talkers as far as Iím aware, and on the contrary tend to be quite socially graceless. On the other hand, theyíre nothing if not wily.
    1. Aldarc's Avatar
      Aldarc -
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlaquin View Post
      I donít get why itís a boost to Charisma and a flaw to Wisdom. If anything, I would expect the opposite. Goblins arenít known for being smooth talkers as far as Iím aware, and on the contrary tend to be quite socially graceless. On the other hand, theyíre nothing if not wily.
      You expect Golarion goblins to be wise?

      Goblin Fact:
      6: Theyíre a little crazy Ė The fact that goblins think of things like ovens as good hiding places reveals much about their inability to think plans through to their most likely outcome. That, and they tend to be easily distracted, particularly by shining things and animals smaller than them that might make good eating.
      Meanwhile...
      4: Goblins Love to Sing Ė Unfortunately, as catchy as their lyrics can be, goblin songs tend to be a bit too creepy and disturbing to catch on in polite society.
      As such, I would say that Charisma works better for goblins in Pathfinder. It works towards making bards (see first combat encounter in Rise of the Runelords), deceptive rogues, and pyromaniac sorcerers.
    1. ccs's Avatar
      ccs -
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlaquin View Post
      I donít get why itís a boost to Charisma and a flaw to Wisdom. If anything, I would expect the opposite. Goblins arenít known for being smooth talkers as far as Iím aware, and on the contrary tend to be quite socially graceless. On the other hand, theyíre nothing if not wily.
      Well, adventurer goblins might well need that increased strength of personality to avoid being treated like the rest of thier xp generating kin....
    1. snickersnax's Avatar
      snickersnax -
      Goblins in my world will never have a charisma bonus
    1. Arakasius's Avatar
      Arakasius -
      Yeah charisma makes sense for goblins, although you could see INT as well given the new alchemist iconic is a goblin. Certainly not wisdom though. Charisma is the stat for diplomacy yes but it is also the stat for bluff, intimidate and the casting stat for both bards and sorcerers, all things that synergize quite well with goblins. It does make you wonder if they're changing the base stats for Halflings, since I think they are also charisma/dexterity. I could see them being wisdom/dexterity but we'll see.

      I'm pretty sure all of the races are going to have one good mental and one good physical stat except I'd guess humans who will probably have two floater stats. This along with the Starfinder like stat increases at 5/10/15/20 means the reliance on the stat headbands/belts can go away.
    1. Aldarc's Avatar
      Aldarc -
      Quote Originally Posted by snickersnax View Post
      Goblins in my world will never have a charisma bonus
      Okay.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Aldarc View Post
      You expect Golarion goblins to be wise?
      I donít expect them to be wise, but I expect them to be Charismatic even less. And I expect them to be Intellient less still.

      Quote Originally Posted by Aldarc View Post
      As such, I would say that Charisma works better for goblins in Pathfinder. It works towards making bards (see first combat encounter in Rise of the Runelords), deceptive rogues, and pyromaniac sorcerers.
      Fair enough, I suppose.

      Quote Originally Posted by ccs View Post
      Well, adventurer goblins might well need that increased strength of personality to avoid being treated like the rest of thier xp generating kin....
      Yeah, I guess that kinda makes sense...
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Arakasius View Post
      Yeah charisma makes sense for goblins, although you could see INT as well given the new alchemist iconic is a goblin. Certainly not wisdom though. Charisma is the stat for diplomacy yes but it is also the stat for bluff, intimidate and the casting stat for both bards and sorcerers, all things that synergize quite well with goblins. It does make you wonder if they're changing the base stats for Halflings, since I think they are also charisma/dexterity. I could see them being wisdom/dexterity but we'll see.
      Halflings might not need to change, since their Flaw will most likely be in Strength. Thatís still enough to differentiate them even if they have bonuses in the same stats.
    1. AmerginLiath's Avatar
      AmerginLiath -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      [*]Jason Bulmahn on including Goblins -- "Concerning goblins and how they fit in Golarion: Times change and so do people's opinions. Goblins as PCs have been a part of our world since the first "We Be Goblins" adventure. Many of the comments here echo those from back during the launch of 3.0 when Half-Orcs returned to the game as a player choice. There was a lot of conflict at first, but the tone of them shifted over time. We always knew this would be a bit controversial and that there were some who would loudly proclaim "not at my table" and I get that. It's your table and your game after all. We are moving forward, trying to allow players to explore these characters, their culture, and their viewpoint. We are hoping to give you plenty of reasons, both mechanically and story-driven, to allow goblins in your game."
      Meanwhile, my group who grew up on 1st Edition broke out our new 3.0 books literally on day one and started making characters almost specifically based on what had returned after being excised from 2nd Edition. I loved that monk...
    1. snickersnax's Avatar
      snickersnax -
      Quote Originally Posted by Arakasius View Post
      Yeah charisma makes sense for goblins...
      The original Paizo Playtest release says goblins " tend to flock to strong leaders" which would seem to imply that they are followers not leaders (ie low charisma).

      that they have "inscrutable quirkiness, love of puns" ie nobody gets their humor and they enjoy puns (aka the lowest form of humor) somehow this qualifies them for an ancestral charisma bonus

      and by some weird logic that because their charisma as a group is so low and everyone hates them they have adapted so that now everyone likes them and exude leadership qualities.

      This is the kind of crap I was hoping PF2 was going edit out.
    1. Aldarc's Avatar
      Aldarc -
      Quote Originally Posted by snickersnax View Post
      The original Paizo Playtest release says goblins " tend to flock to strong leaders" which would seem to imply that they are followers not leaders (ie low charisma).

      that they have "inscrutable quirkiness, love of puns" ie nobody gets their humor and they enjoy puns (aka the lowest form of humor) somehow this qualifies them for an ancestral charisma bonus
      That's not actually true. Or rather it's 18th century snobbery directed at puns that has since somehow become regarded as "truth." Samuel Johnson, to whom the quote is often attributed, hated puns (among others of his contemporaries), but I highly doubt most would regard Samuel Johnson (one of the 'fathers' of the English Dictionary) as the hallmark of humor, much less be able to discuss anything humorful he wrote off the top of their head. But if you look back at many writers before that time, puns were all the rage and regarded as a form of cleverness. They were beloved by many Greek playwrights and philosophers. Shakespeare is loaded with puns. Many of his plays may have been for the masses, but puns were nevertheless highly regarded in a lot of pre-18th century literature.
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