Take A Look At Pathfinder 2's Revamped Magic System!
  • Take A Look At Pathfinder 2's Revamped Magic System!


    The latest Pathfinder 2 blog delves into the magic system! Learn about how spells work, how components and actions interact, how to "heighten" a spell, cast a cantrip, learn about 10th level spells and rituals, and see a few sample spells!







    This is quite an in-depth blog post, and it's easier to click through to it rather than have me repeat all the information. You can find it here. There's a lot to take in there!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ancalagon
    The third comment by JRutterbush is very interesting. They speculate that there will be four spell lists (Mental, Spiritual, Material, Vital) and that different classes will get access to a portion of those lists.
    Comments 108 Comments
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      This blog post got me hyped! Everything in here looks awesome, especially the formatting of the spells, which is very nostalgic for me as a 4e fan.
    1. RangerWickett's Avatar
      RangerWickett -
      Regenerate should be a much lower level spell, and limbs should get chopped off a lot more often.
    1. Ancalagon's Avatar
      Ancalagon -
      Quote Originally Posted by RangerWickett View Post
      Regenerate should be a much lower level spell, and limbs should get chopped off a lot more often.
      Then it would be just like Warhammer... well the limb chopping part. Warhammer has peg-legs though!
    1. Koloth's Avatar
      Koloth -
      Have to wonder if that 7th level Regenerate spell can be undone by 1pt of acid damage from that 0 lvl Ray of Acid cantrip? If so, would seem to contradict the stuff about high level spells being more resistant to low level spells.

      Will the Bard's playing a violin to satisfy the verbal action still work in an area of silence?

      Since they are called Actions, do the verbal, somatic and material actions use any of the three actions in a round?

      Hope they include as a downloadable document a cross reference of spell names so we can figure out that Cure Wounds is now Heal.
    1. Aldarc's Avatar
      Aldarc -
      Quote Originally Posted by Koloth View Post
      Since they are called Actions, do the verbal, somatic and material actions use any of the three actions in a round?
      Yes. So if an action has Verbal and Somatic "components/actions" that would require two of your three actions to perform each action.
    1. LuisCarlos17f's Avatar
      LuisCarlos17f -
      Spell points? That changes radically the occultist and the psionic powers.
    1. turkeygiant's Avatar
      turkeygiant -
      Quote Originally Posted by Koloth View Post
      Have to wonder if that 7th level Regenerate spell can be undone by 1pt of acid damage from that 0 lvl Ray of Acid cantrip? If so, would seem to contradict the stuff about high level spells being more resistant to low level spells.

      Will the Bard's playing a violin to satisfy the verbal action still work in an area of silence?

      Since they are called Actions, do the verbal, somatic and material actions use any of the three actions in a round?

      Hope they include as a downloadable document a cross reference of spell names so we can figure out that Cure Wounds is now Heal.
      I think it is a mistake to think of cantrips as a 0 lvl. spell now when with scaling they are more like a max current level spell that doesn't use up a slot. But I see your point if a say lvl. 1 acid damage spell could negate regenerate, maybe you should have to take a certain amount of acid/fire damage in a turn before regenerate is stopped?
    1. Kobold Boots -
      Quote Originally Posted by Koloth View Post
      Have to wonder if that 7th level Regenerate spell can be undone by 1pt of acid damage from that 0 lvl Ray of Acid cantrip? If so, would seem to contradict the stuff about high level spells being more resistant to low level spells.
      If I read the article correctly, cantrips now cast at the highest level of casting that a caster can use. So if you're casting that 7th level regen, your cantrip casts at 7th level. I'd imagine that lower level casters are going to have a hard time offsetting higher level spells.

      Will the Bard's playing a violin to satisfy the verbal action still work in an area of silence?
      No example to go on so who knows, but I'd wager that non-magical sounds would not work, but if the magic on an instrument were stronger than the casting level of area of silence, boom.

      Since they are called Actions, do the verbal, somatic and material actions use any of the three actions in a round?
      Unlikely as previous material has classified some spells as costing one action, some costing two due to length of casting and now we've seen rituals. While they could get that granular and say that spells with only one component are one action and those with two are two actions, It feels like that's too complicated for where they're going.

      Hope they include as a downloadable document a cross reference of spell names so we can figure out that Cure Wounds is now Heal.
      No opinion here. I'd rather read the rulebook fully.
    1. Blue's Avatar
      Blue -
      In the playtest, cantrips are spells you can cast at will, but they are no longer level 0. Instead, they automatically heighten to the highest spell level you can currently cast. That means if you're 5th level, your ray of frost is 3rd level and deals more damage, and your light cantrip is better at counteracting magical darkness.
      Oh, I like this a great deal. It avoids the whole "dip warlock for full EB", while still keeping it real for full casters. And yes, I'm okay if half-casters or those who multiclass to non-casting classes don't have cantrips advancing at full character level speed.
    1. TwoSix -
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlaquin View Post
      This blog post got me hyped! Everything in here looks awesome, especially the formatting of the spells, which is very nostalgic for me as a 4e fan.
      It is kind of weird how much this edition seems to be taking the good parts of 4e and 5e. If they really haven't looked at 4e or 5e much, parallel evolution is a hell of a thing.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kobold Boots View Post
      Unlikely as previous material has classified some spells as costing one action, some costing two due to length of casting and now we've seen rituals. While they could get that granular and say that spells with only one component are one action and those with two are two actions, It feels like that's too complicated for where they're going.
      Theyíve already been shown to work this way in the glass cannon podcast. Each component takes one action to perform, which is the reason different spells cost different numbers of actions. Even in the article, the heal spell lists itís effects (which we know to cost 1, 2, and 3 actions respectively) by the components required to cast them.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
      It is kind of weird how much this edition seems to be taking the good parts of 4e and 5e. If they really haven't looked at 4e or 5e much, parallel evolution is a hell of a thing.
      Either way, Iím thrilled about it! PF2 seems to be taking a the best design innovations from the past decade along with a few new ideas and creating a truly great game out of them.
    1. neuronphaser's Avatar
      neuronphaser -
      Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
      It is kind of weird how much this edition seems to be taking the good parts of 4e and 5e. If they really haven't looked at 4e or 5e much, parallel evolution is a hell of a thing.
      "We haven't looked much at XYZ while designing..." and "we never played XYZ ever" are two different things ;-) I think "we haven't looked..." is really kinda just their way of saying "recently."

      I do love what I'm seeing though, which I didn't expect. Not sure why the spell's range/area has to be listed thrice and then again in each of the different castings...and yet the "target" entry doesn't note how one of the castings is quite different from what that entry says...

      I hope these aren't finalized. But they are definitely headed in the right direction!
    1. TwoSix -
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlaquin View Post
      Either way, Iím thrilled about it! PF2 seems to be taking a the best design innovations from the past decade along with a few new ideas and creating a truly great game out of them.
      I admit, I wasn't planning on getting too excited about PF2, but my next turn in the DMs chair should be happening right around when the playtest material comes out. I think picking up the playtest book for that game just might be turning into an option.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by neuronphaser View Post
      "We haven't looked much at XYZ while designing..." and "we never played XYZ ever" are two different things ;-) I think "we haven't looked..." is really kinda just their way of saying "recently."

      I do love what I'm seeing though, which I didn't expect. Not sure why the spell's range/area has to be listed thrice and then again in each of the different castings...and yet the "target" entry doesn't note how one of the castings is quite different from what that entry says...
      I think for the same reason Vampiric Exsanguination doesnít list a target. If a spell has an area instead of a range, itís implied that it affects everything in the area without targeting them.4

      Quote Originally Posted by neuronphaser View Post
      I hope these aren't finalized. But they are definitely headed in the right direction!
      Theyíre not finalized yet. The wording on Vampiric Exsanguination has already been changed in response to feedback in the comments of the blog post.
    1. TwoSix -
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlaquin View Post
      Theyíve already been shown to work this way in the glass cannon podcast. Each component takes one action to perform, which is the reason different spells cost different numbers of actions. Even in the article, the heal spell lists itís effects (which we know to cost 1, 2, and 3 actions respectively) by the components required to cast them.
      I don't recall...do components act as an action restriction? Can you use Action 1 to cast a verbal component 1 action spell, and then action 2 to cast a second verbal component 1 action spell? Or can you only use each type of component once per round?

      I like the idea to act as a brake on casting a good 1 action spell three times per round, which is kind of repetitive.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
      I don't recall...do components act as an action restriction? Can you use Action 1 to cast a verbal component 1 action spell, and then action 2 to cast a second verbal component 1 action spell? Or can you only use each type of component once per round?

      I like the idea to act as a brake on casting a good 1 action spell three times per round, which is kind of repetitive.
      You can use each type of casting actions as many times as you have actions to spend on it. So for example, you could use the 1-Action version of Heal three times in one turn, if you wanted to do a lot of healing to just one ally (or a lot of damage to just one undead). I only know this because in the comments of the spell blog post, someone asked about the wording on Healís Heighten effect (+1d8 or +2d8 if you are using the one or two action version to heal the living) and if it was intended that using Heal to damage undead scaled so poorly, Siefter said it was because they have to be very careful with one-Action spells that do damage, since they can potentially be used up to three times in one turn.
    1. Erdric Dragin's Avatar
      Erdric Dragin -
      Goodbye, Pathfinder, nice knowing what you used to be. Now they've become their own RPG system completely irrelevant to the last.
    1. TwoSix -
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlaquin View Post
      You can use each type of casting actions as many times as you have actions to spend on it. So for example, you could use the 1-Action version of Heal three times in one turn, if you wanted to do a lot of healing to just one ally (or a lot of damage to just one undead). I only know this because in the comments of the spell blog post, someone asked about the wording on Healís Heighten effect (+1d8 or +2d8 if you are using the one or two action version to heal the living) and if it was intended that using Heal to damage undead scaled so poorly, Siefter said it was because they have to be very careful with one-Action spells that do damage, since they can potentially be used up to three times in one turn.
      Yea, just read those comments. Looks like component will be more of a hook to hang class distinctions on, then (like the bard with the violin example). Makes sense.
    1. Charlaquin's Avatar
      Charlaquin -
      Quote Originally Posted by TwoSix View Post
      Yea, just read those comments. Looks like component will be more of a hook to hang class distinctions on, then (like the bard with the violin example). Makes sense.
      Itíll also potentially inform what you can cast when - canít perform somatic components of your hands are bound, canít perform verbal components in a zone of silence, canít perform material components if you donít have the materials.

      I do hope they list some materials for spells within material components. I know they rarely come up, but theyíre a nice dash of flavor.
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