Pathfinder 2 Character Sheet #5: Merisiel, Elf Rogue
  • Pathfinder 2 Character Sheet #5: Merisiel, Elf Rogue


    Merisiel, the elf rogue, is the subject of our 5th Pathfinder 2nd Edition pregenerated character reveal! Check out the sneak attacks, and nimble dodges!

    Paizo's Mark Seifter says "Merisiel ... is all about sneaking, skills, and high damage sneak attacks, especially if it’s also a critical hit with her deadly rapier: 4d6+1d8+8, ouch! Merisiel has more skill feats than anyone else, and more skills too. Note that she is trained in Religion, which you might not expect for a rogue, but she’s learning from her girlfriend Kyra."






    Tomorrow will be the final preview, when me meet Ezren, the human wizard!
    Comments 21 Comments
    1. Shasarak's Avatar
      Shasarak -
      Does anyone know what the Pathfinder 2 Playtest rules were for Sneak Attacking against creatures like undead?

      Can you do it now, or are Rogues still out of luck?
    1. dryxxxa's Avatar
      dryxxxa -
      Rogues can normally sneak attack undead and constructs in PF1, need "ghost touch" weapons to sneak attack ghosts and are out of luck when they meet oozes, elementals or swarms (obscure feats from supplement books help to deal with those though). I hope it'll be something similar in PF2.
    1. Lylandra's Avatar
      Lylandra -
      note that sneak attack does precision damage. So I guess there will be creatures with resistance or immunity to this type of damage. And we'll likely see precision damage return as a damage type for other classes as well.
    1. Banesfinger -
      I guess rogues are no longer a "squishy" class:
      HP: 16 (only 3 less than the paladin)
      AC: 17/19 with nimble dodge (equal to the Fighter's AC with shield raised)
    1. ohokwy's Avatar
      ohokwy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Shasarak View Post
      Does anyone know what the Pathfinder 2 Playtest rules were for Sneak Attacking against creatures like undead?

      Can you do it now, or are Rogues still out of luck?
      I believe the various playtests have revealed that a Rogue can sneak attack zombies, at least. You could sneak attack undead PF1, as well, so its unlikely to be an issue.
    1. ohokwy's Avatar
      ohokwy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Banesfinger View Post
      I guess rogues are no longer a "squishy" class:
      HP: 16 (only 3 less than the paladin)
      AC: 17/19 with nimble dodge (equal to the Fighter's AC with shield raised)
      Elves are a 6hp race, as well. Humans are an 8hp race, so if she were human she'd only have 1 less HP than Seelah. Though to be fair she has more CON than Seelah.

      That said, the HP different between Rogue and Paladin (and other full martials like Fighter, etc.) has doubled from a difference of 1/level (4.5 vs. 5.5 per level) to a difference of 2/level (8 vs. 10 per level) so at higher levels Seelah is going to end up with significantly more HP than Merisiel, regardless of the slightly lower CON.
    1. mellored's Avatar
      mellored -
      Quote Originally Posted by ohokwy View Post
      Elves are a 6hp race, as well. Humans are an 8hp race, so if she were human she'd only have 1 less HP than Seelah. Though to be fair she has more CON than Seelah.

      That said, the HP different between Rogue and Paladin (and other full martials like Fighter, etc.) has doubled from a difference of 1/level (4.5 vs. 5.5 per level) to a difference of 2/level (8 vs. 10 per level) so at higher levels Seelah is going to end up with significantly more HP than Merisiel, regardless of the slightly lower CON.
      Given how the rest of the game scales, the differene is slightly smaller.

      4.5 vs 5.5 is a 22% difference.
      8 vs 10 is a 25% difference.
      16 vs 19 is an 18% difference.
    1. Banesfinger -
      Quote Originally Posted by mellored View Post
      Given how the rest of the game scales, the differene is slightly smaller.

      16 vs 19 is an 18% difference.
      With a 3-4 Hit Point difference between the Rogue and Paladin/Fighter's HPs at 1st-level, that seems pretty negligible considering most of the classes' damage outputs are 1d8+4 (average of 8.5 dmg).
      So 'on paper' the AC, HPs and damage output looks negligible between classes. Hopefully they all "play" differently. (Hopefully the Playtesters will give us some feedback on this).
    1. mellored's Avatar
      mellored -
      Quote Originally Posted by Banesfinger View Post
      With a 3-4 Hit Point difference between the Rogue and Paladin/Fighter's HPs at 1st-level, that seems pretty negligible considering most of the classes' damage outputs are 1d8+4 (average of 8.5 dmg).
      So 'on paper' the AC, HPs and damage output looks negligible between classes. Hopefully they all "play" differently. (Hopefully the Playtesters will give us some feedback on this).
      The difference should be pretty small at first level. Especially if they do typical multi-classing.

      And as you gain more level+feats, the difference between classes, and characters of the same class, will spread out. More in what you can do, rather than a big difference in numbers.
    1. parcival42's Avatar
      parcival42 -
      Did they leave the damage bonus off the dagger entry? Since it has the Finesse keyword, it should also get the +4 damage modifier the rapier has, correct?
    1. lightblade's Avatar
      lightblade -
      Quote Originally Posted by parcival42 View Post
      Did they leave the damage bonus off the dagger entry? Since it has the Finesse keyword, it should also get the +4 damage modifier the rapier has, correct?
      No; the dagger line is under Ranged. Since she's throwing it, the damage bonus is her Strength of +0.
    1. Staffan's Avatar
      Staffan -
      Quote Originally Posted by ohokwy View Post
      That said, the HP different between Rogue and Paladin (and other full martials like Fighter, etc.) has doubled from a difference of 1/level (4.5 vs. 5.5 per level) to a difference of 2/level (8 vs. 10 per level) so at higher levels Seelah is going to end up with significantly more HP than Merisiel, regardless of the slightly lower CON.
      I believe they've said they're increasing the relative hp difference between classes (leading to more hp overall), because they want Con to be slightly less valuable. In PF1, a +2 Constitution advantage is enough to get a rogue or cleric up to fighter-level hp, which is a bit annoying.
    1. Arrowhawk's Avatar
      Arrowhawk -
      I don't see that Sneak Attack works against flanked creatures. Is that no longer thing in P2, or does flanking make someone FF'd?
    1. Adso -
      Quote Originally Posted by Arrowhawk View Post
      I don't see that Sneak Attack works against flanked creatures. Is that no longer thing in P2, or does flanking make someone FF'd?
      Flanking makes a creature flat-footed to you.
    1. TheCosmicKid's Avatar
      TheCosmicKid -
      Experienced Smuggler is how Pickpocket ought to work: you don't need the feat to smuggle, but you get a benefit if you have it.

      The particular floor effect it creates, however, makes me wonder how well it scales into higher levels.
    1. TheCosmicKid's Avatar
      TheCosmicKid -
      Quote Originally Posted by Adso View Post
      Flanking makes a creature flat-footed to you.
      And does anyone else find it odd that "flat-footed" is a relative condition?
    1. mellored's Avatar
      mellored -
      Quote Originally Posted by TheCosmicKid View Post
      And does anyone else find it odd that "flat-footed" is a relative condition?
      It's probably not the best term, but it makes sense go have a relative condition for being flanked, or surprised.

      Maybe something like 'distracted' would work better.
    1. jmucchiello's Avatar
      jmucchiello -
      Surprise Attack surprises me. (Ha) Because it means combatants are not normally flat-footed at the beginning of combat.

      Also, shouldn't the dagger be listed as both ranged and melee?
    1. TheCosmicKid's Avatar
      TheCosmicKid -
      Quote Originally Posted by mellored View Post
      It's probably not the best term, but it makes sense go have a relative condition for being flanked, or surprised.
      Oh, yeah, definitely, no argument there. The old terminology (or lack thereof) for "no Dex bonus to AC against this attacker" was irritating.
    1. Sunseeker's Avatar
      Sunseeker -
      Just gonna say: that +10HP at 1st level, savor that 4E flavor.

      Also: no major changes here as far as I can tell. Rogue looks pretty rogue.
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