Ravnica Table of Contents
  • Ravnica Table of Contents & More


    Straight from Amazon are not only Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica's tablet of contents, but also a double page spread featuring the introduction of character creation!



    Races: Centaur, minotaur, simic hybrid, and vadalken races.
    Subclasses: Clerics of order, druids of spores.

    60-pages on the guild
    24-pages on the city/world
    10-pages of magic items
    70-pages of NPCs and monsters.

    The focus is really on the Guilds as the defining feature, which makes some sense. But likely means that details of the setting unrelated to the Guild might be sparse, likely little more than has been seen in the various existing Planeshift PDF products. It's almost a monster & Guild book more akin to Volo's Guide to Monsters with a focus on Guild lore rather than monster lore.

    The book also appears to be in the range of 256-pages, which is larger than the shipping weight previously implied. I had almost been expecting a svelte 160-page product.


    Comments 307 Comments
    1. SkidAce's Avatar
      SkidAce -
      They are creating just enough framework with these style books for me.

      Moneywise a complete conversion from them is impractical, and since different DMs value different things anyway...

      this lets me build and add the parts I want.




      (I mean the big art books were enough for me, this is gravy)
    1. Remathilis's Avatar
      Remathilis -
      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      Actually it has a soft ban list, as I understand officially Ravnica doesn't have Dwarves, Half Orcs, Gnomes, Halflings, Tieflings (that one was silly, Ravnica has fiends), Dragonborn, not counting planeswalkers, but you can choose to add them. Centaurs, Elves, Loxodon, Vedelken, Simic Hybrid, Humans, Minotaur, Goblins, Half Elves. If ones counts subraces, that is less opinions then just the pure PHB. It less then one could expect from Darksun for a setting that bills itself as a diverse setting.
      I await the official text of the book to see how the race-thing shakes out. Canonically, the MTG universe has had dwarves (as recently as Kaladesh), orcs (Ixalan), and even fiend-blooded races (Tibalt counts as one, as well as Azra, which are tieflings in all but name from Battlebond), even if Ravnica has lacked them. Either way, this is D&D's Ravnica, so I also don't see any hard-locks on races anymore. I wager a future Dark Sun book might look like human (DS variant), Dwarf (DS subrace), Elf (DS subrace), Halfling (DS subrace), Half-elf, Mul, Half-giant, Aarakroka, Dragoborn (Dray), Tiefling, and a few other options.

      Moreover, Ravnica literally puts no restriction on class (or subclass for that matter) and I expect that will be a tradition going forward. Races are easy to mix and remix, classes are a different story (based on how WotC has given us dozens of them, but yet to give us an official 13th class).

      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      And I don't even consider Ravenloft it's own setting, it's just a region of the Forgotten Realms Shadowfell now, instead of a completely separate demiplane. It even uses FR Gods now, like Lanthder the Morning Lord. Ravenloft is not the first setting to be fed to FR. Kara Tur was originally a completely separate setting, that FR simply devoured. FR ate part of Spelljammer, Realmspace. It ate Al Qadim and the Maztica from birth. The Cold Lands were originally part of a video game that later got added FR. The Moonshaes were not originally intended to be part of FR, someone decided to get Niles to make it an FR novel.
      You're completely off on Ravenloft. Ravenloft (as I6) was setting neutral and didn't imply a demi-plane at all; that came with the 2e campaign setting. WotC backtracked on that in Expedition, then soft-embraced the demi-plane idea (devoid of the larger Demiplane of Dread) in 4e before splitting the difference in 5e. The Morninglord IS Lathandar, but he's been a fixture of Barovia since Vampires in the Mist back in the 2e era (Thanks to Jandar Sunstar bringing the faith over). In fact, Ravenloft was devoid of any official religions (outside a few domain specific ones like G'Henna) for most of its 2e run. CoS implies the Morninglord may actually NOT be Lathandar though thanks to CoS's retcon of the faith being older than the demiplane and coming from Strahd's "unnamed prime world" of origin.

      So Ravenloft is still fairly independent from Faerun (except for nosy adventurers from there who end up in Barovia) but its far less independent than it was during the late 2e run.


      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      Volo's Guide to Spirits and Specters will be the same way. My guess is it will be a VGTM style book that focuses more on undead and religion based monsters, like celestials, like you merged Avatars & Pantheons with open grave: secrets of the undead, a players option book, and an MM. Maybe some more stuff too.
      Where is this coming from? Is there another announced book or some form of speculation?

      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      This doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to GGR, I very much am and the only thing that surprised me was the loss of Vashino. I'm still buying it, I'm not venting over what could have beens, missed opportunities and the fact that they keep making the same mistakes.
      I was hoping it'd be a touch crunchier, but I'm probably still picking it up. I like MTG and D&D, and the idea of a setting that straddles both games is appealing, even if I don't intend to run it any time soon.
    1. gyor's Avatar
      gyor -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      And than the Guildpact was broken. And now Nicol Bolas is gonna invade and Ravnica will get the Yagmoth treatment and that is pretty close to Infinite Avatar Crisis on Toril.

      Ravnica is just Bigger Waterdeep. With guilds! The comparaison to Sigil is misleading as without the guilds Ravnica is just the FR. Without the factions Sigil still has a lot going for it.

      That just means more urban adventures and dozens after dozens of hidden/forgotten pockets of nature for the DMs convinience.

      Meh. Racism only goes so far in a game.

      Yet, the PCs will still manage a way to go to the planes and there will still be threats from the planes.

      Everyone tries to be different from FR's pantheon.

      And those Planewalkers are the interesting part I want to see in a MtG book.
      I can play this game too.

      Athas, just FR but with more sand!

      Eberron, exactly like FR, but with more Dragonshards and Warforged!

      Planescape exactly like FR. It actually is closet to FR IMO, because it's basically the entire D&D Multuverse, but centred on Sigil. In fact even in Sigil Planescape is more like FR then Ravnica is, Planescape and FR share a lot of cultures, races, gods, and characters, and so on. There has even book Planescape FR crossover books. Greyhawk is the only still separate setting from FR that is more similar to it. Greyhawk is closer and that is only because FR ate most of it's best NPCs.

      Ravenloft is just like the Forgotten Realms, because FR straight up ate it.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
      I await the official text of the book to see how the race-thing shakes out. Canonically, the MTG universe has had dwarves (as recently as Kaladesh), orcs (Ixalan), and even fiend-blooded races (Tibalt counts as one, as well as Azra, which are tieflings in all but name from Battlebond), even if Ravnica has lacked them. Either way, this is D&D's Ravnica, so I also don't see any hard-locks on races anymore. I wager a future Dark Sun book might look like human (DS variant), Dwarf (DS subrace), Elf (DS subrace), Halfling (DS subrace), Half-elf, Mul, Half-giant, Aarakroka, Dragoborn (Dray), Tiefling, and a few other options.

      Moreover, Ravnica literally puts no restriction on class (or subclass for that matter) and I expect that will be a tradition going forward. Races are easy to mix and remix, classes are a different story (based on how WotC has given us dozens of them, but yet to give us an official 13th class).



      You're completely off on Ravenloft. Ravenloft (as I6) was setting neutral and didn't imply a demi-plane at all; that came with the 2e campaign setting. WotC backtracked on that in Expedition, then soft-embraced the demi-plane idea (devoid of the larger Demiplane of Dread) in 4e before splitting the difference in 5e. The Morninglord IS Lathandar, but he's been a fixture of Barovia since Vampires in the Mist back in the 2e era (Thanks to Jandar Sunstar bringing the faith over). In fact, Ravenloft was devoid of any official religions (outside a few domain specific ones like G'Henna) for most of its 2e run. CoS implies the Morninglord may actually NOT be Lathandar though thanks to CoS's retcon of the faith being older than the demiplane and coming from Strahd's "unnamed prime world" of origin.

      So Ravenloft is still fairly independent from Faerun (except for nosy adventurers from there who end up in Barovia) but its far less independent than it was during the late 2e run.




      Where is this coming from? Is there another announced book or some form of speculation?



      I was hoping it'd be a touch crunchier, but I'm probably still picking it up. I like MTG and D&D, and the idea of a setting that straddles both games is appealing, even if I don't intend to run it any time soon.
      Volo's Guide to Spirits & Spectres is an off-hand joke in Waterdeep Dragon Heist, when Volo as NPC is discussing his future plans. It's an alcohol pun.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Dualazi View Post
      This one looks to be a hard pass for me, as I have no interest in running a game in Ravnica since it's basically a poor-man's Sigil, but I held out hope that it would be something akin to Mordenkainen's where the crunch (specifically for monsters) would be worth the purchase. As it stands 38 pages worth doesn't cut the mustard, and many of the other aspects (races/classes) were awful based on their previews. Oh well, I hope their next offering is more worthwhile.
      I count ~80 pages in the beastiary...?
    1. Remathilis's Avatar
      Remathilis -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Guilds, factions, clans, groups, whatever, rarely work for PCs. They often do not mess well when members of different groups are together. Like member of the Boros Legion working with a member of the the Cult of Radkos? At least Sigil is an interesting location and connects all the planes.
      And yet I can shuffle a Vraska, Golgari Queen in with Trolstani Discordant in an Abzan deck and the two play nice together. In fact, my EDH deck has cards from Radkos, Boros, and Orhzov all in it. I don't see their being any more issue with mixing guilds than there would be with a Harper and a Zhent in AL or a Mercykiller and a Xaostict in Planescape.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Who cares? Who really wanted to play a Loxodon? Races are the least interesting part of D&D. The archetypes of fantasy have been done and now it is just about doing weird stuff. What archetype Dragonborn are filling? Big lizard guy that always is in every fantasy novel? The tiefling has been the real last racial innovation and that dates back to the 90s.
      So you think that the seven races in the AD&D PHB should be the only races ever in fantasy, got it.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Meh. New classes would be more interesting.
      WotC is allergic to new classes, as evidenced by the 35th redrafts of Mystic/Psion, Artificer, and the abandonment of the revised ranger concept.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      What a new setting needs is a whole manual. And there are more iconic MtG monsters than psychic vampires or Orzhov angels.
      It sounds less like you want D&D supplement for a MTG setting and more like you want an MTG RPG that is cross-compatible with D&D.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Not the most iconic MtG NPCs. Urza, Nicol Bolas, Jace, Gerrard on the other hand...
      None of which have origin on Ravnica. In fact, only two even have ties to the plane (Jace became the Guildpact, Bolas is coming to tear things up). The others you mentioned have been dead for a thousand years in the timeframe.

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Yeah, not the list of iconic MtG spells that could have filled a whole book by it self.
      Yeah, spells like Lightning Bolt, Counterspell, Fireball, and... uh, well look at that...

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Again, not the MtG we are looking for.
      Not the MtG YOU'RE looking for!

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Those are the least interesting locations MtG has to offer.
      The Planechase series covered some of the biggest names in MtG (Dominaria, Innistrad, Zendikar) as well as some newer ones (Amonket, Kaladesh, Ixalan). Ravnica, the setting with soon to be NINE card-sets set in it, is getting a hardback rather than a PDF. Aside from Pharexia, where do you think they should have covered?

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Colored magic could have gone beyond vancian spellcasting and expends 5e magic system. Something a long the line of power points.
      Back to the "separate RPG with all new rules that is compatible with D&D" magical Christmasland thinking...

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      This whole thing is a wasted opportunity and will be forgotten rapidly. Like 5e's APs.
      Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
    1. gyor's Avatar
      gyor -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      Volo's Guide to Spirits & Spectres is an off-hand joke in Waterdeep Dragon Heist, when Volo as NPC is discussing his future plans. It's an alcohol pun.
      The first instance of VGTSS mentioned in W: DH it was as an alcohol pun. The second time it was mentioned it wasn't. If the joke had been the only mention I'd have written it off as a joke, but twice and the second mention more serious, I feel positive it's an Easter Egg, Volo's Guide to Spirits and Specters is coming, likely late Winter/Early Spring is my guess.
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by cbwjm View Post
      Not really, it's a great setting that doesn't need the MtG metasetting elements to be great. Ravnica is very different from FR, I think it is going to work well within the DnD system.
      Let's flip this a second and see if the logic still applies. Say WotC used D&D to make some MtG cards. I would expect to see stuff like Bigby's hand spells, Magic Missile, Vorpal sword, the Eye of Vecna, Drizzt, Elminster, Raistlin, etc, cards. Not all of them and maybe not them specifically, but some similarly iconic elements tied to the D&D brand. If those wouldn't be turned into cards, what would be the point of doing a D&D MtG block?
    1. gyor's Avatar
      gyor -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      I count ~80 pages in the beastiary...?
      I don't think he is willing to count the NPCs as part of the Beastiary.
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      I can play this game too.

      Athas, just FR but with more sand!

      Eberron, exactly like FR, but with more Dragonshards and Warforged!
      Indeed. This is why ultimately at our home game we abandonned settings and started games in Sigil and visited different worlds during a campaign. It boiled down to this week we'll do D&D with sand and psionics or D&D gothic horror or D&D steam-ish punk. It is something the folks at Paizo understood when making Golarion (they benefited from 30 years insight and none of the restraints) with all sort of zones with different vibes on the same planet.

      Buying campaign guides gives DMs a premade worlds, NPCs, items, history, etc, but they need to add something new to D&D to be worthwhile. Brightright was never interesting cause it didn't do much different and now it is forgotten. Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Mystara were forgotten cause the FR just ate them up by doing the same thing, but better. Right now Ravnica doesn't stand appart. It had a chance with the MtG angle, but that was dropped.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      The first instance of VGTSS mentioned in W: DH it was as an alcohol pun. The second time it was mentioned it wasn't. If the joke had been the only mention I'd have written it off as a joke, but twice and the second mention more serious, I feel positive it's an Easter Egg, Volo's Guide to Spirits and Specters is coming, likely late Winter/Early Spring is my guess.
      I don't think it will happen, but you know what, you get mad bragging rights if it does.

      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      I don't think he is willing to count the NPCs as part of the Beastiary.
      The NPC stat blocks seem more useful than the straight monsters, honestly. Having a new crazed cultist or mad wizard stat block is just as useful for the Realms as for Ravnica.
    1. gyor's Avatar
      gyor -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Let's flip this a second and see if the logic still applies. Say WotC used D&D to make some MtG cards. I would expect to see stuff like Bigby's hand spells, Magic Missile, Vorpal sword, the Eye of Vecna, Drizzt, Elminster, Raistlin, etc, cards. Not all of them and maybe not them specifically, but some similarly iconic elements tied to the D&D brand. If those wouldn't be turned into cards, what would be the point of doing a D&D MtG block?
      The equivilant of Elminister, Drizzt, Volo, Farideh, Minsc, Szazz Tam, ect..., is Teysa, Jarad, Feather, Aurelia, Izoni, Emarra, Livonia, Agrus Kos, and so on, not Ajani Goldman's, Chandra Naalar, Dack Feyden, Kaya, Nahari, Karn, Sorin Markov, act...

      So yeah I'd expect an Elminister card if they were doing a Forgotten Realms MtG deck, but not if they were doing Darksun deck or Dragonlance.

      There is only a few characters in D&D outside plan escape for whom plane hopping is important. Mordikien, Nezram World walker, and a couple of others. I would not expect to see any of them except Elminister in an FR deck, maybe Nezram. That is it.

      Still I think they specifically avoided stating Planeswalkers, not even Jace, because I don't think they know how they are going to handle MtG style Planeswalkers in D&D, because it asks too many questions they don't want to answer, it highlights the differences in the MtG and D&D cosmologies.

      Example, Elminister could Planeshift a whole bunch of people between planes with simple spells without breaking a sweat. Nicol Bolas post mending could not do that no matter how hard he tried. No MtG planeswalkers could. Even the Planar Bridge can't take living matter across it.

      How do Planeswalkers interact with Sigil?

      I mean can you imagine Nicol Bolas discovering Sigil, with portals to everywhere his head would explode. Sigilian would look at Nicol Bolas as pretentious country bumpkin.

      Oh and Ravnica isn't called a Plane in D&D at all, it gets referee to as a world, because Ravnica is just another part of the Material Plane now, another crystal sphere. In MtG it was seen as an actual Plane of its own.

      Which makes most of the Planeswalkers, world walkers.
    1. gyor's Avatar
      gyor -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Let's flip this a second and see if the logic still applies. Say WotC used D&D to make some MtG cards. I would expect to see stuff like Bigby's hand spells, Magic Missile, Vorpal sword, the Eye of Vecna, Drizzt, Elminster, Raistlin, etc, cards. Not all of them and maybe not them specifically, but some similarly iconic elements tied to the D&D brand. If those wouldn't be turned into cards, what would be the point of doing a D&D MtG block?
      The equivilant of Elminister, Drizzt, Volo, Farideh, Minsc, Szazz Tam, ect..., is Teysa, Jarad, Feather, Aurelia, Izoni, Emarra, Livonia, Agrus Kos, and so on, not Ajani Goldman's, Chandra Naalar, Dack Feyden, Kaya, Nahari, Karn, Sorin Markov, act...

      So yeah I'd expect an Elminister card if they were doing a Forgotten Realms MtG deck, but not if they were doing Darksun deck or Dragonlance.

      There is only a few characters in D&D outside plan escape for whom plane hopping is important. Mordikien, Nezram World walker, and a couple of others. I would not expect to see any of them except Elminister in an FR deck, maybe Nezram. That is it.

      Still I think they specifically avoided stating Planeswalkers, not even Jace, because I don't think they know how they are going to handle MtG style Planeswalkers in D&D, because it asks too many questions they don't want to answer, it highlights the differences in the MtG and D&D cosmologies.

      Example, Elminister could Planeshift a whole bunch of people between planes with simple spells without breaking a sweat. Nicol Bolas post mending could not do that no matter how hard he tried. No MtG planeswalkers could. Even the Planar Bridge can't take living matter across it.

      How do Planeswalkers interact with Sigil?

      I mean can you imagine Nicol Bolas discovering Sigil, with portals to everywhere his head would explode. Sigilian would look at Nicol Bolas as pretentious country bumpkin.

      Oh and Ravnica isn't called a Plane in D&D at all, it gets referee to as a world, because Ravnica is just another part of the Material Plane now, another crystal sphere. In MtG it was seen as an actual Plane of its own.

      Which makes most of the Planeswalkers, world walkers.
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
      And yet I can shuffle a Vraska, Golgari Queen in with Trolstani Discordant in an Abzan deck and the two play nice together.
      Yeah, when playing MtG roleplay is thrown out the window. You can have Jace and Bolas in the same deck. It doesn't mean anything. That is a pretty silly argument, you tried to make.

      Of course maybe you play D&D with no roleplay, no lore, no background... Just a competition between players.

      So you think that the seven races in the AD&D PHB should be the only races ever in fantasy, got it.
      Hello strawman my old friend, you've come to talk again.

      WotC is allergic to new classes
      And that is terrible. A great loss for players and DMs.

      It sounds less like you want D&D supplement for a MTG setting and more like you want an MTG RPG that is cross-compatible with D&D.
      Nope. I want what is advertized. MtG in D&D. Not a new generic setting like what is being produced.

      None of which have origin on Ravnica.
      Indeed. Ravnica is a bad setting for this. Dominaria would have made more sense for this product to be interesting and in brand.

      Yeah, spells like Lightning Bolt, Counterspell, Fireball, and... uh, well look at that...
      Those are the only MtG iconic spells? Wow.

      Not the MtG YOU'RE looking for!
      Indeed. WotC won't get my money and still stays irrelevant when it comes to RPG innovation. Its been what, a decade now that they haven't produced anything of note? Good thing for them the brand is strong. In fact it is surprising it stays so strong.

      The Planechase series covered some of the biggest names in MtG (Dominaria, Innistrad, Zendikar) as well as some newer ones (Amonket, Kaladesh, Ixalan). Ravnica, the setting with soon to be NINE card-sets set in it, is getting a hardback rather than a PDF. Aside from Pharexia, where do you think they should have covered?
      For a the first MtG D&D official product? Dominaria. Start with the basic and iconic stuff. Brand identity.

      Back to the "separate RPG with all new rules that is compatible with D&D" magical Christmasland thinking...
      Another strawman. Anyway, a power point system to represent mana is pretty easy to make and compatible with the core books for pros like the ones that work at WotC and the subcontracters they hire.
    1. gyor's Avatar
      gyor -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      Yeah, when playing MtG roleplay is thrown out the window. You can have Jace and Bolas in the same deck. It doesn't mean anything. That is a pretty silly argument, you tried to make.

      Of course maybe you play D&D with no roleplay, no lore, no background... Just a competition between players.

      Hello strawman my old friend, you've come to talk again.

      And that is terrible. A great loss for players and DMs.

      Nope. I want what is advertized. MtG in D&D. Not a new generic setting like what is being produced.

      Indeed. Ravnica is a bad setting for this. Dominaria would have made more sense for this product to be interesting and in brand.

      Those are the only MtG iconic spells? Wow.

      Indeed. WotC won't get my money and still stays irrelevant when it comes to RPG innovation. Its been what, a decade now that they haven't produced anything of note? Good thing for them the brand is strong. In fact it is surprising it stays so strong.

      For a the first MtG D&D official product? Dominaria. Start with the basic and iconic stuff. Brand identity.

      Another strawman. Anyway, a power point system to represent mana is pretty easy to make and compatible with the core books for pros like the ones that work at WotC and the subcontracters they hire.
      Ironically Dominaria is the single MtG setting most like the Forgotten Realms by a country mile. Both are archeology worlds. Dominaria is MtG's "kitchen sink setting" with deep lore and a long history, like FR. I can't believe you complain that Ravnica is just like FR and then say you would have preferred Dominaria be the first MtG, when Dominaria occupies the exact same thematic space with FR!
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      The equivilant of Elminister, Drizzt, Volo, Farideh, Minsc, Szazz Tam, ect..., is Teysa, Jarad, Feather, Aurelia, Izoni, Emarra, Livonia, Agrus Kos, and so on, not Ajani Goldman's, Chandra Naalar, Dack Feyden, Kaya, Nahari, Karn, Sorin Markov, act...

      So yeah I'd expect an Elminister card if they were doing a Forgotten Realms MtG deck, but not if they were doing Darksun deck or Dragonlance.
      And then there are the Vorpal swords and Magic Missiles that are part of all settings and would indeed by in a D&D MtG cross-over no matter the setting.

      But your missing the point by focusing on the tree rather than the forest. With this product they aren't on brand and produced something that misses the point when incorporating the MtG setting in the D&D one.

      Still I think they specifically avoided stating Planeswalkers, not even Jace, because I don't think they know how they are going to handle MtG style Planeswalkers in D&D, because it asks too many questions they don't want to answer, it highlights the differences in the MtG and D&D cosmologies.

      Example, Elminister could Planeshift a whole bunch of people between planes with simple spells without breaking a sweat. Nicol Bolas post mending could not do that no matter how hard he tried. No MtG planeswalkers could. Even the Planar Bridge can't take living matter across it.
      And yet you'll get lots of planar interaction.

      How do Planeswalkers interact with Sigil?

      I mean can you imagine Nicol Bolas discovering Sigil, with portals to everywhere his head would explode. Sigilian would look at Nicol Bolas as pretentious country bumpkin.

      Oh and Ravnica isn't called a Plane in D&D at all, it gets referee to as a world, because Ravnica is just another part of the Material Plane now, another crystal sphere. In MtG it was seen as an actual Plane of its own.

      Which makes most of the Planeswalkers, world walkers.[/QUOTE]
      Designers get paid to solve these issues and people pay 50$ for those solutions. Now it seems people will still pay 50$, but won't get much in return for it. Well guilds. 50$ worth of guilds...

      I don't know. I'm making a bigger case out of this because I'm disappointed. We started playing MtG in the 90s when it was young and fresh. We already has been playing D&D for a couple of years. We spend hours talking about how a card or a D&D elements would be stated in the other game. 20 years later they finally do a cross-over and this is the best they can do? I'm not whelmed and I do not see why it should be incorporated into a D&D game as the guild angle will only draw comparaisons to Sigil.
    1. Satyrn's Avatar
      Satyrn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      Given the nature of the setting, covering the Guilds is pretty much everything. There is no government outside the Megacor...Guilds, nor any religion.
      Oh . . . Now I'm curious to see how easily I could convert these guilds for my own use as Hyperion, Torgue and all the rest.
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      Ironically Dominaria is the single MtG setting most like the Forgotten Realms by a country mile. Both are archeology worlds. Dominaria is MtG's "kitchen sink setting" with deep lore and a long history, like FR. I can't believe you complain that Ravnica is just like FR and then say you would have preferred Dominaria be the first MtG, when Dominaria occupies the exact same thematic space with FR!
      Remember, I aready agreed with you the D&D settings were similar and it was just a tweek of flavor.

      Both are like the FR, but at least with one of them you can add "on brand" MtG stuff and not just guilds. As I said before, settings are just the flavor of the week. Sand and psionics D&D, gothic horror D&D, steampunk-ish D&D, and we could have had MtG D&D. Instead we get guilds D&D. But we already had that with Sigil.
    1. Rossbert's Avatar
      Rossbert -
      One of the weird things in the setting was that while many of the guildmasters had achieve-supremacy-of-the-world plans, the less insane ones didn't really bother because, for example the recycling and farming group can't really replace the magical and mechanical infrastructure group or vice versa so the guilds almost had a mutual destruction set up even without the magically binding wold-wide contract.

      Edit: Sorry Satyrn, my quote button didn't work, but that was related to your post.
    1. epithet's Avatar
      epithet -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      ... Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Mystara were forgotten cause the FR just ate them up by doing the same thing, but better. ...
      Well, that's just wrong. Greyhawk set out a world shaped by religious and political conflict from a wargamer perspective. Dragonlance is a setting defined by the Lakhesis/Paladine conflict, which informs every aspect of the world. Mystara is a totally gonzo "this is here, that is there, don't ask why" kind of setting, a kitchen sink where none of the plates or bowls are piled on top of one another but nestle edge to edge in a sort of fairytale kingdom tapestry.

      The Forgotten Realms is a "we have everything" cataclysm-of-the-week hot mess of a setting that doesn't do any of those elements as well as the settings defined by them, but takes a half-assed stab at doing all of those things and then tries to sell you on variety. A lot of people like it, to be sure, and there is something to be said for a setting that can accomodate pretty much anything and everything you throw at it. It's just not my thing.
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