Ravnica Table of Contents
  • Ravnica Table of Contents & More


    Straight from Amazon are not only Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica's tablet of contents, but also a double page spread featuring the introduction of character creation!



    Races: Centaur, minotaur, simic hybrid, and vadalken races.
    Subclasses: Clerics of order, druids of spores.

    60-pages on the guild
    24-pages on the city/world
    10-pages of magic items
    70-pages of NPCs and monsters.

    The focus is really on the Guilds as the defining feature, which makes some sense. But likely means that details of the setting unrelated to the Guild might be sparse, likely little more than has been seen in the various existing Planeshift PDF products. It's almost a monster & Guild book more akin to Volo's Guide to Monsters with a focus on Guild lore rather than monster lore.

    The book also appears to be in the range of 256-pages, which is larger than the shipping weight previously implied. I had almost been expecting a svelte 160-page product.


    Comments 307 Comments
    1. Remathilis's Avatar
      Remathilis -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      So a D&D inspired MtG card block wouldn't involve D&D. Got it.
      Would you require an D&D-inspired MtG set to have to make an attacker roll a d20 to see if he hit and do random damage? What about a saving throw to avoid a card's effects or take 1/2 damage?

      If not, what a waste. Such a lack of vision.
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Remathilis View Post
      Would you require an D&D-inspired MtG set to have to make an attacker roll a d20 to see if he hit and do random damage? What about a saving throw to avoid a card's effects or take 1/2 damage?

      If not, what a waste. Such a lack of vision.
      I would expect Magic Missiles and Vorpal sword cards, like I expect iconic spells, items and monsters in a products that brings MtG to D&D. But that seems hard to grasp and strawmen are used instead. What a shame.
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by dave2008 View Post
      No, that is not what I was saying (I don't know for sure as I don't know the relevance of a "card block"). I'm saying if I walk in from the street as a D&D fan, but not a MtG fan, and see the book I wouldn't know or think it was MtG related. Now, if I looked a bit harder I obviously would. But a books cover is significant. And I think what they (WotC) are saying is that this is a D&D book first and influenced by MtG 2nd.
      On the back it says MtG meets D&D and the "MtG world of Ravnica to use in D&D".

      I would expect more MtG in my soup the it is presented. I'd also expect more of the world and less of the guilds.
    1. Satyrn's Avatar
      Satyrn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
      Yeah, the Planeshift document really sold me on the setting, so I would love to see something like the Wayfarer's Guide to Eberron (which sold me on that setting). So far Ravnica just hasn't interested me. No biggie, my next campaign will likely be in Eberron anyway. I do hope it's a good product for those that do find it interesting--sour grapes just ain't my thing.
      You're saying you like Zendikar and Eberron after having read their products, so I'm not grokking why you're talking as though your opinion on Ravnica is fully set based only on the rumors and snippets you've seen.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by epithet View Post
      It certainly seems to be true that all of the concepts in the book are expressed in D&D terms, without adding any significant new sub-systems of game mechanics to expand D&D with "Magic flavor." However, despite D&D players collectively asking for updates to D&D settings like Planescape and Dark Sun for years now, WotC chose instead to include Ravnica, because it is a Magic property. Yes, it is a D&D book, but it is one seemingly designed to sell D&D to Magic customers, and perhaps the other way around, too.

      I wonder, when they announce the Magic cards with Elminster and Drizzit, will you be as certain that those are Magic products and not at all D&D products?
      Well, sure: since they will have added in Magic conceps such as colored Mana, it will by necessity be Magic and not D&D. I honestly do expect we will see a D&D world used for a Magic set, if this book is popular.
    1. dave2008's Avatar
      dave2008 -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      On the back it says MtG meets D&D and the "MtG world of Ravnica to use in D&D".

      I would expect more MtG in my soup the it is presented. I'd also expect more of the world and less of the guilds.
      And that is reasonable as a MtG fan. In book sales the Front Cover is the most important, not sure this holds true for RPGs, and I think they chose not to emphasize the MtG connection on the front cover for reason. I would guess the primary target is not MtG fans.
    1. Satyrn's Avatar
      Satyrn -
      I've been calling my skag-filled megadungeon campaign a Borderlands game.

      Have I been lying this whole time?
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      They specifically removed any Magic flavor, other than the setting itself: the book, unlike Star Wars, does bill itself as D&D and use the trade dress. Everything in the book is in D&D terms. Crawford has been extremely specific about this, and the marketing has followed suit.
      I would argue that Ravnica flavour IS Magic the Gathering flavour. Like Forgotten Realms flavour IS Dungeons & Dragons.
      So a game like, oh, Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance or Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms that make use of zero TTRPG mechanics are still somewhat D&D.

      I don’t think all that makes D&D into a D&D product is having the logo. Otherwise the 2010 seventh edition of Gamma World would also be D&D as it had that logo on the box.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      I would argue that Ravnica flavour IS Magic the Gathering flavour. Like Forgotten Realms flavour IS Dungeons & Dragons.
      So a game like, oh, Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance or Idle Champions of the Forgotten Realms that make use of zero TTRPG mechanics are still somewhat D&D.

      I don’t think all that makes D&D into a D&D product is having the logo. Otherwise the 2010 seventh edition of Gamma World would also be D&D as it had that logo on the box.
      It is more than the trade dress, but for marketing purposes the trade dress is extremely important. In other terms, D&D would include things like the 9-point alignment system, or 9 levels of spells, or the Class sysyte, all things that will be in this D&D book.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      It is more than the trade dress, but for marketing purposes the trade dress is extremely important. In other terms, D&D would include things like the 9-point alignment system, or 9 levels of spells, or the Class sysyte, all things that will be in this D&D book.
      So in other words, with no interior content changes, this is a D&D book and is NOT a Magic book:
      Name: A783E026-2B82-418D-836E-71330BC72B75.jpeg ► Views: 144 ► Size: 47.0 KB

      But this would be a MtG book and NOT a Dungeons & Dragons book:
      Name: 79990657-2A23-41CE-8978-4695E8662FB3.jpeg ► Views: 137 ► Size: 45.8 KB

      Because, while 9-point alignment, 9 levels of spells, and a class system are important, this is a D&D book but has none of that:
      Name: 958E87D3-0E10-49BF-9A47-6343BB4F2136.jpeg ► Views: 145 ► Size: 67.4 KB
      (Ignoring that 4e had neither 9 levels of spells or alignment...)
    1. cbwjm's Avatar
      cbwjm -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      "Ummm.... Magic the Gathering is repeatedly mentioned in the sample page we have, linked in the first post.
      And Magic the Gathering is mentioned on the cover. It’s mentioned before D&D on the back cover.
      And the name of the product on Amazon is: “Dungeons & Dragons Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica / D&D/Magic: The Gathering Adventure Book and Campaign Setting”

      Arguing it is a Ravnica book and not a MtG book feels like arguing a Dragonlance product isn’t a D&D product.

      It’s not a MtG card game product but it is very much part of the same brand"
      It's not surprising MtG is mentioned since this is the origin of Ravnica, but this book is still not part of the MtG meta setting, it's been adapted for use for DnD and the DnD meta setting so yes, this is not a MtG product, it's a DnD product.
    1. cbwjm's Avatar
      cbwjm -
      Quote Originally Posted by epithet View Post
      It certainly seems to be true that all of the concepts in the book are expressed in D&D terms, without adding any significant new sub-systems of game mechanics to expand D&D with "Magic flavor." However, despite D&D players collectively asking for updates to D&D settings like Planescape and Dark Sun for years now, WotC chose instead to include Ravnica, because it is a Magic property. Yes, it is a D&D book, but it is one seemingly designed to sell D&D to Magic customers, and perhaps the other way around, too.

      I wonder, when they announce the Magic cards with Elminster and Drizzit, will you be as certain that those are Magic products and not at all D&D products?
      Of course they will be MtG products, they'll be translated into the MtG colours and made into cards for a MtG block. You'd have to be deluded to think it was a DnD product.
    1. flametitan's Avatar
      flametitan -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      I'd recommend checking out the Lore You Should Know segments with Ari Levitch. He goes into detail about the philosophies and Modus Operandi of the various Guilds.
      I'll have to take a look at that, sure. That said, mt problem is that not I'm feeling the guilds being a central focus, rather than "Are the guilds interesting?" Like I keep saying: good, interesting factions with lots of interplay should be a requirement of every setting, not a selling point of one setting in particular.

      In Magic terms, the setting came about mechanically from the desire to build dual-color Mana decks, and figuring out how weird combos like Green-Black or Blue-Red could be philosophically reconciled. The Ecumenopolis came from the idea, it seems, that weird combos Land cards such as White-Black or Green-Blue would have to be artificial (Banks or factories rather than swamps or forests).
      I have little to no interest in Magic the Gathering, so that means nothing to me. I'm asking why, as a D&D player, should I be interested in Ravnica, not why Magic players like Ravnica.

      This book goes to great lengths to describe these differences in plain language D&D terms, with no reference to Magic game concepts, which I find interesting. In D&D terms, an Ecumenopolis means the players can't "leave the city," because the city is all that is. A complex, more industrial society provides different story opportunities, and the Guilds firm the basis for the DM to procedurally build material.
      That actually doesn't mean as much as you'd think. All a good Urban game needs is enough locations of interest to have little to no reason to leave. Once you establish that, then the size of the city itself doesn't matter. It could be as small as Waterdeep, the size of New York, or even worldwide like Ravnica, and that has little bearing on an urban setting game. In fact, I'd say having a worldwide city almost runs against one of the things I like about Urban campaigns, as to me one of the main conceits of the genre is that all of the points of interest are so close to each other in a confined area.

      Not only that, but looking at the book, it seems to ignore that conceit in favour of talking about the guilds anyway. Why should I care about the world spanning city if the book itself doesn't seem to care about it?

      And as far as procedurally generating adventures: That's nice, but it really only matters if you care about the setting in the first place. I like the procedurally generated Sharn Adventures in Wayfinder's guide because I like Eberron. If I didn't care about Eberron, the existence of it wouldn't change my mind and make me think Eberron is cool.

      Quote Originally Posted by gyor View Post
      Actually it kind of is, because all the guilds are represented there and have influence there along with it being where the Living Guildpact holds court when he is on the plane at all.

      There are Ozhov Balisicias, and banks, there Azorious courts, a Simic Zonot, and different types of guild gates and so on.
      OK, first: At the time of writing this, I can't actually read that ball of fragmentary sentences sloppily mixed in with wiki citations and edit buttons. After trying to decipher that text, it becomes a list of names. Names I don't know, hold attachment to, and don't excite me. It's nice that you care about them, but why should I? Why should I want to care about them?
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by flametitan View Post
      I'll have to take a look at that, sure. That said, mt problem is that not I'm feeling the guilds being a central focus, rather than "Are the guilds interesting?" Like I keep saying: good, interesting factions with lots of interplay should be a requirement of every setting, not a selling point of one setting in particular.



      I have little to no interest in Magic the Gathering, so that means nothing to me. I'm asking why, as a D&D player, should I be interested in Ravnica, not why Magic players like Ravnica.



      That actually doesn't mean as much as you'd think. All a good Urban game needs is enough locations of interest to have little to no reason to leave. Once you establish that, then the size of the city itself doesn't matter. It could be as small as Waterdeep, the size of New York, or even worldwide like Ravnica, and that has little bearing on an urban setting game. In fact, I'd say having a worldwide city almost runs against one of the things I like about Urban campaigns, as to me one of the main conceits of the genre is that all of the points of interest are so close to each other in a confined area.

      Not only that, but looking at the book, it seems to ignore that conceit in favour of talking about the guilds anyway. Why should I care about the world spanning city if the book itself doesn't seem to care about it?

      And as far as procedurally generating adventures: That's nice, but it really only matters if you care about the setting in the first place. I like the procedurally generated Sharn Adventures in Wayfinder's guide because I like Eberron. If I didn't care about Eberron, the existence of it wouldn't change my mind and make me think Eberron is cool.



      OK, first: At the time of writing this, I can't actually read that ball of fragmentary sentences sloppily mixed in with wiki citations and edit buttons. After trying to decipher that text, it becomes a list of names. Names I don't know, hold attachment to, and don't excite me. It's nice that you care about them, but why should I? Why should I want to care about them?
      The Guilds themselves, as narrative entities, are what holds interest in the setting: all locations on the planet are related to and mainly controlled by them. Check out the Lore videos, I think it is the identities of the Guilds that you are not looking at here. The Magic rules elements are interesting in that they allowed for the creation of very different than normal archetypes, sure h as the ghost-controlled Bank-Church of the Orzhav Syndacite, or the Gulgari.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      So in other words, with no interior content changes, this is a D&D book and is NOT a Magic book:
      Name: A783E026-2B82-418D-836E-71330BC72B75.jpeg ► Views: 144 ► Size: 47.0 KB

      But this would be a MtG book and NOT a Dungeons & Dragons book:
      Name: 79990657-2A23-41CE-8978-4695E8662FB3.jpeg ► Views: 137 ► Size: 45.8 KB

      Because, while 9-point alignment, 9 levels of spells, and a class system are important, this is a D&D book but has none of that:
      Name: 958E87D3-0E10-49BF-9A47-6343BB4F2136.jpeg ► Views: 145 ► Size: 67.4 KB
      (Ignoring that 4e had neither 9 levels of spells or alignment...)
      Certainly if the book we're being marketed as a Magic product when it isn't, it would make sense to complain that it is not a Magic: the Gathering RPG: the complaint is that this D&D product being marketed as a D&D book is not a Magic product, which is odd since they have been explicitly and repeatedly clear in presenting it as a D&D book.
    1. MonsterEnvy's Avatar
      MonsterEnvy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      On the back it says MtG meets D&D and the "MtG world of Ravnica to use in D&D".

      I would expect more MtG in my soup the it is presented. I'd also expect more of the world and less of the guilds.
      Then you clearly don't know much about Ravnica. The Guilds are the world.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Parmandur View Post
      Certainly if the book we're being marketed as a Magic product when it isn't, it would make sense to complain that it is not a Magic: the Gathering RPG: the complaint is that this D&D product being marketed as a D&D book is not a Magic product, which is odd since they have been explicitly and repeatedly clear in presenting it as a D&D book.
      True. But the sole benefitt of this product versus say "Planewalker's Guide to Sigil" is that it might attract Magic the Gathering fans to the product, potentially increasing sales and maybe getting them into D&D.
      What's the point of doing this rather than a brand new setting?

      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterEnvy View Post
      Then you clearly don't know much about Ravnica. The Guilds are the world.
      Given this is not a MtG forum, I wouldn't expect people to know much about Ravnica.
      I'm also not going to fault people for expecting a book titled "Guide to Ravnica" to fire and foremost be about Ravnica!
    1. MonsterEnvy's Avatar
      MonsterEnvy -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      True. But the sole benefitt of this product versus say "Planewalker's Guide to Sigil" is that it might attract Magic the Gathering fans to the product, potentially increasing sales and maybe getting them into D&D.
      What's the point of doing this rather than a brand new setting?



      Given this is not a MtG forum, I wouldn't expect people to know much about Ravnica.
      I'm also not going to fault people for expecting a book titled "Guide to Ravnica" to fire and foremost be about Ravnica!
      It is about Ravnica. Knowing about the guilds ensures you know everything you need to about Ravnica.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by MonsterEnvy View Post
      It is about Ravnica. Knowing about the guilds ensures you know everything you need to about Ravnica.
      So knowing about the Guilds gives me location adventures?
      That will tell me how and where the adventuring party meets and what quests they might be given? What people wear and how they act? The history of the setting? What the common trade goods are and where they come from?

      That feels a little reductive. Like saying that knowing about the gods and faiths of the Forgotten Realms tells you everything you need to know about Faerun.

      After all, the iconic "adventure" is the party guarding a caravan going from place A to B. Knowing the Guilds likely tells me who would be owning and operating the trade caravan. But it wouldn't tell me what was in the caravan, where it was going, and likely not who would try and and hijack it.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      True. But the sole benefitt of this product versus say "Planewalker's Guide to Sigil" is that it might attract Magic the Gathering fans to the product, potentially increasing sales and maybe getting them into D&D.
      What's the point of doing this rather than a brand new setting?



      Given this is not a MtG forum, I wouldn't expect people to know much about Ravnica.
      I'm also not going to fault people for expecting a book titled "Guide to Ravnica" to fire and foremost be about Ravnica!
      Well, sure, they are doing this instead if something else for financial reasons, though they are in a position to do so primarily due to James Wyatt's tenacious passion for the project, dedicating his spare time to making the proof of concept Plane Shift articles.

      It might not be reasonable to expect everyone on a DD board to know Magic stuff, but I didn't know anything about Ravnica a few months ago: my knowledge is from Dragon Talk and other WotC D&D sources. Not terribly unrealistic that people on this forum would listen to Dragon Talk or read Dragon+.
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