Review Dragon Heist, Mad Mage, and Ravnica!
  • Review Dragon Heist, Mad Mage, and Ravnica!


    Three books over on the reviews section need your reviews, comments, or ratings. Please head on over to Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage, and Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica and leave your rating!





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    Comments 99 Comments
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      I'm fascinated by how the enthousiasm over new DnD books is low right now (my metric is how few people flock to review them nowadays, and how poorly they are rated), but sales of all DnD products are up 30% each years.

      I wonder if books aren't the source of revenues they were and DMsguild and other licenses are driving it.
    1. eyeheartawk's Avatar
      eyeheartawk -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      I'm fascinated by how the enthousiasm over new DnD books is low right now (my metric is how few people flock to review them nowadays, and how poorly they are rated), but sales of all DnD products are up 30% each years.

      I wonder if books aren't the source of revenues they were and DMsguild and other licenses are driving it.
      I think part of that review drought has to do with these particular releases. You've got to figure the enthusiasm for Forgotten Realms products certainly isn't at its zenith given we've already had a bunch of Realms stuff. In the case of Ravnica, I think the number of ratings reflect the general lack of interest in Magic the Gathering among the type of RPG enthusiasts who would rate a book such as this.
    1. EthanSental's Avatar
      EthanSental -
      Maybe Iím overlooking something but mad mage has 3 reviews, all 4 out of 5 stars but a overall score of 75...shouldnít it be 80 or is the overall scoring not determined that way?
    1. jayoungr's Avatar
      jayoungr -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      I'm fascinated by how the enthousiasm over new DnD books is low right now (my metric is how few people flock to review them nowadays...
      The number of reviews is highly likely to increase after the holidays. A lot of people are probably expecting to get these as presents over the next month or so.
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Quote Originally Posted by EthanSental View Post
      Maybe Iím overlooking something but mad mage has 3 reviews, all 4 out of 5 stars but a overall score of 75...shouldnít it be 80 or is the overall scoring not determined that way?
      There's no zero rating. There's five 25% increments (including 0% and 100%):

      1=0%, 2=25%, 3=50%, 4=75%, 5=100%.
    1. EthanSental's Avatar
      EthanSental -
      Thanks! Didnt know that Or maybe forgot
    1. vpuigdoller's Avatar
      vpuigdoller -
      I generally like the three books but not in love with them but I agree most reviews will probably come after the holiday season. I do hope they keep publishing pseudo campaign settings like the Ravnica book it just needs some polishing.
    1. lluewhyn's Avatar
      lluewhyn -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      I'm fascinated by how the enthousiasm over new DnD books is low right now (my metric is how few people flock to review them nowadays, and how poorly they are rated), but sales of all DnD products are up 30% each years.

      I wonder if books aren't the source of revenues they were and DMsguild and other licenses are driving it.
      I love a lot of the accessories WotC has put out for D&D over the years (I just bought the 0-6 CR Monster Cards last night and are eager to try them out), but I've been mostly unhappy with the official published adventures they've put out. I've found much greater satisfaction with the smaller, cheaper adventures found on these third-party sites.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      I'm fascinated by how the enthousiasm over new DnD books is low right now (my metric is how few people flock to review them nowadays, and how poorly they are rated), but sales of all DnD products are up 30% each years.
      It's almost as if we're not representative of the overall audience.
      Like as if there were suddenly three times as many D&D players out there right now, most never having played before, and not frequenting the same websites as their parents...

      Quote Originally Posted by Kramodlog View Post
      I wonder if books aren't the source of revenues they were and DMsguild and other licenses are driving it.
      DMsGuild is doing okay. So much so that DriveThru RPG needed to add two new metal for their bestsellers: mithral and adamantine. Because there were too many Platinum bestsellers.
      But even then, Mithral selling products are still only in the 2500 copies sold range. Only 67 have hit that.
      Meanwhile, 90.73% of products haven't even sold 50 copies.
      So they're not getting much money from the fans.

      Even the official PDFs of class products are lucky to hit platinum. Most are well below that. But they likely only make a few sales every day.
      That said, it's easy money for WotC as they just need sit back and let the sales trickle in. A buck here, some quarters there. It adds up.
      But it's still nothing compared to the revenue of selling 50,000 copies of a book. It's not going to sustain WotC.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      It's almost as if we're not representative of the overall audience.
      Like as if there were suddenly three times as many D&D players out there right now, most never having played before, and not frequenting the same websites as their parents...


      DMsGuild is doing okay. So much so that DriveThru RPG needed to add two new metal for their bestsellers: mithral and adamantine. Because there were too many Platinum bestsellers.
      But even then, Mithral selling products are still only in the 2500 copies sold range. Only 67 have hit that.
      Meanwhile, 90.73% of products haven't even sold 50 copies.
      So they're not getting much money from the fans.

      Even the official PDFs of class products are lucky to hit platinum. Most are well below that. But they likely only make a few sales every day.
      That said, it's easy money for WotC as they just need sit back and let the sales trickle in. A buck here, some quarters there. It adds up.
      But it's still nothing compared to the revenue of selling 50,000 copies of a book. It's not going to sustain WotC.
      Based on Amazon reviews, Dragon Heist has been well received, with Mad Mage and Ravnica being more divisive. But even that is still a pretty thin slice of the customer base.

      WotC alone probably knows how well these are selling, and what feedback they are getting.
    1. Chronos96's Avatar
      Chronos96 -
      Honestly, as someone who was pretty split about Ravnica, I have to say It was exactly what I wanted from it. In terms of usability, I think it's the best out of the three D&D books this quarter. Don't get me wrong I'm excited to run Dragon Heist but there's more content in the 5th ed adventures than I'll ever use. I want more options and Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica gives that.
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      It's almost as if we're not representative of the overall audience.
      Doesn't really matter, though, does it? We're not trying to represent anybody, we're just a happy little niche online community talking amongst itself.
    1. MNblockhead's Avatar
      MNblockhead -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      It's almost as if we're not representative of the overall audience.
      Like as if there were suddenly three times as many D&D players out there right now, most never having played before, and not frequenting the same websites as their parents...
      Yep, my son is in junior high and he and his friends are all using Discord and YouTube for their gaming news and collaboration. They are not even using Twitch, making me wonder if Twitch has been relegated to us old people.
    1. Parmandur's Avatar
      Parmandur -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      Doesn't really matter, though, does it? We're not trying to represent anybody, we're just a happy little niche online community talking amongst itself.
      True, but he was responding to an attempt to draw broad conclusions about the market.
    1. MNblockhead's Avatar
      MNblockhead -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      Doesn't really matter, though, does it? We're not trying to represent anybody, we're just a happy little niche online community talking amongst itself.
      It matters if you are trying to gauge interest in and success of a product. Which is what Jester was getting at. But, I'm happy to stay here conversing with my 300,000 closest friends. :-)

      Also, Discord drives me nuts. I've forced myself to use it a few times because some Kickstarter creators have the best fan support on that site and some on-line games require its use. But it is just awful for having conversations over time and mining prior conversations for information. Same with Twitter. Forums like this will continue to play a role for those who want to engage in more substantive online conversations.

      Now, get off my lawn.

      Wait, sorry Morrus, this is your lawn.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by Morrus View Post
      Doesn't really matter, though, does it? We're not trying to represent anybody, we're just a happy little niche online community talking amongst itself.
      Not generally no.
      What we do here is fine. I generally like it here.

      But it is worth reminding people that the enthusiasm over new D&D books isnít necessarily low. Just low here. And a low number of reviews here doesn't translate into a general lack of interest with the larger audience.
      And extrapolating from the lack of interest here to making statements about sales and possible alternate sources of the revenue is pretty dubious logic.
    1. Jester David's Avatar
      Jester David -
      Quote Originally Posted by MNblockhead View Post
      It matters if you are trying to gauge interest in and success of a product. Which is what Jester was getting at. But, I'm happy to stay here conversing with my 300,000 closest friends. :-)
      I think Morrus is just tired of me crapping on the popularity of his site. Cause Iím always the one pointing out weíre not the norm and implying message boards are dated...

      Quote Originally Posted by MNblockhead View Post
      Also, Discord drives me nuts. I've forced myself to use it a few times because some Kickstarter creators have the best fan support on that site and some on-line games require its use. But it is just awful for having conversations over time and mining prior conversations for information. Same with Twitter. Forums like this will continue to play a role for those who want to engage in more substantive online conversations.
      I use Discord for a streaming game in place of Skype. But I generally have no interest in the larger communities. Too old for that stuff.

      In general Twitter is a hole. But the #dnd community there is fun. Had some neat conversations there.
      But generally people go there to get angry and pick fights. Everyone is angry on Twitter.
    1. Morrus's Avatar
      Morrus -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      Cause Iím always the one pointing out weíre not the norm and implying message boards are dated...
      I guess itís good to have a hobby.
    1. Henry's Avatar
      Henry -
      In my case, Dragon Heist and Mad Mage are two of the few scenario products I've bought (the last was Tales from the Yawning Portal) -- but I haven't reviewed yet because I'm too busy prepping to run Dragon Heist. I'll definitely put up a review once I'm done, and probably closer to Christmas time (when I have a break).

      It is worth occasionally reminding ourselves that us grizzled old grumblers are very common in these forums, though, but not many other places. :-)
    1. Kramodlog's Avatar
      Kramodlog -
      Quote Originally Posted by Jester David View Post
      Not generally no.
      What we do here is fine. I generally like it here.

      But it is worth reminding people that the enthusiasm over new D&D books isnít necessarily low. Just low here. And a low number of reviews here doesn't translate into a general lack of interest with the larger audience.
      And extrapolating from the lack of interest here to making statements about sales and possible alternate sources of the revenue is pretty dubious logic.
      Here is composed of 300,000 posters. Scientific polls do not even reach that sort of representation. Looking at the dates when some accounts were made and how some themes keep coming up in threats (e.g. aligments), I'd say there is a fair share of new people to the game and the hobby here. Granted, the grognard demographics might be more represented, but there are lots of new folk here.

      Looking at Amazon charts, the core books are the ones who stay high, not the APs (Dragon Heist and Dungeon of the Mad Mage aren't even APs) or supplements. Newbies attracted to the hobby because of streaming seems to drive those sells. Ashame the products that would root them in the community aren't up to par.

      Streaming might just be a fad like many others, so what will drive sells of 5e once that fad passes? Certainly not the products.
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