Doing Away with Spellcraft

[Korimyr the Rat]

One complaint I've frequently heard regarding the D&D skill system is the fact that people are usually unsure whether a check belongs in Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcane).

Would it cause much difficulty to simply combine Spellcraft with Knowledge (arcane), and Psicraft with Knowledge (psionics)? (Perhaps also stating that Spellcraft related to divine magic belongs in Knowledge (religion)...)

The only area I can see problems in is Prestige Classes and Feats that have both as prerequisites, though I don't think it would be a serious concern.

[Crothian]

I doubt it would do much, just make certain classes have an easier time spending skill points.

[Jdvn1]

I think it could work. Alternately, since casters almost always max out Spellcraft, you could just make it a level check.

[Korimyr the Rat]

Originally Posted by Crothian

I doubt it would do much, just make certain classes have an easier time spending skill points.

Classes which, for the most part, only have 2 skill points per level. On the one hand, it makes it possible for those classes to have something other than the default skills, on the other, their low skill points seem like part of their limitations. (Not that this matters for me, since I'm running Gestalt-- noone has 2 skill points in my party.)

Pardon me... just thinking aloud.

I'm probably going to run with this.

[Korimyr the Rat]

Should Druids and Rangers use Knowledge (religion) for Spellcraft, or Knowledge (nature)?

What about Shugenjas?

[Crothian]

I like knoweldge nature for the nature classes.....relegion for the Shugenjas I guess

[Jdvn1]

Well, it's up to you, obviously, since it's a houserule. I'd think Knowledge (Nature) for the three of them, though.

[Jdvn1]

Aren't Shugenjas the elemental casters? Or is that the Wu Jen?

[Korimyr the Rat]

Originally Posted by Jdvn1

Aren't Shugenjas the elemental casters? Or is that the Wu Jen?

Divine elementalists, yes.

[Crothian]

i guess you could do knowlege planes for them but neither really fit perfectly

[Jdvn1]

Doesn't OA also have the (spirit) subtype? Maybe Knowledge (Spirits) would be suitable.

[Li Shenron]

Both skills are quite useful, I think they are among the "most-rolled" skills in our games But they represent IMO two sensibly different thing:

Spellcraft is about spells, both in spellcasting form and in item form (scrolls & potions). It seems a very skill based on practice, and very appropriate for sorcerers or casters with a practical approach.

Knowledge (Arcana) is about notable magic things in general but not much about spells. It seems about what you have read in books, and as such fits scholar-types even if they aren't practiced in spellcasting themselves.

If your problem is that you always spend your 2 skill points per level in these, just don't spend them. There is absolutely no reason why an arcane caster MUST max out Kn(Arcana), and only a Wizard who copies spells regularly should max out Spellcraft (but not a Sorcerer e.g.). Obviously, the higher you have it the better it is, but it is not really necessary IMXP.

[Jdvn1]

Originally Posted by Li Shenron

and only a Wizard who copies spells regularly should max out Spellcraft (but not a Sorcerer e.g.).

And for counterspelling.

[Li Shenron]

Originally Posted by Jdvn1

And for counterspelling.

Right, a caster who wants to try make counterspelling an effective tactic should at least max it out as well, only I've yet to meet one who has succeeded

[Staffan]

I've never had any problem telling the skills apart. Spellcraft is about spells and magical effects themselves. It tells you "That guy waving his hands and picking up the guano is about to unleash a fireball," and that "this very life-like statue would appear to be the result of some sort of petrification magic." Knowledge (Arcana) tells you "That guy is wearing the insignia of the Order of Aureon," and "the droppings around this chamber indicate that we're dealing with a cockatrice, which is capable of petrifying its foes."