New (Force) combat spells

[Elephant]

The WOTC stuff I can think of at the moment includes Magic Missile(1st) and Orb of Force(4th). What else should I be considering?

Magic Missile: 1d4+1, max 5, up to 5 targets. SR applies.

Orb of Force: 1d6, max 10, 1 target, no save or SR.

What stats would fill in spells to fit these themes at 2nd and 3rd?

[TheRelinquished]

I've never seen Orb Of Force, personally, so forgive me of my ignorance. But there's a very potent 4th lvl. spell that I use in my campaigns. It's based off of a spell from Icewind Dale II called Mordenkainen's Force Missiles:

Mordenkainen's Force Missiles
Evocation
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to seven creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None/Yes (see text)
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell creates a brilliant globe of magical energy that streaks forth from the caster's hand to unerringly strike its target, much like a Magic Missile spell.

The wizard creates one missile at 7th level, and an additional missile at every third level after 7th, to a maximum of seven missiles at 25th level. Each missile inflicts 2d4 points of damage to the target and then bursts in a 5 foot radius concussive blast that inflicts 1 point of damage per level of the caster.

Creatures taking damage may attempt a reflex save to negate the concussive damage, but the impact of the missile itself allows no saving throw. The spell Shield will absorb the force missiles harmlessly, including the concussion damage.

I don't know about 2nd or 3rd level spells, but here's a fourth level spell to add to the family. And believe me, it's a beast at higher levels.

After considering it, however, I don't think there would be any appropriate 2nd or 3rd level spells that would be anything more than cop out versions of these spells. If you really want more of these spells, you might consider just preparing/casting them in higher slots.

[EDIT]
Found Orb of Force. Completely forgot about that chain of Orb spells. =P

[Sir Brennen]

Don't forget shield is a Force spell, too.

[Caliban]

Originally Posted by Elephant

The WOTC stuff I can think of at the moment includes Magic Missile(1st) and Orb of Force(4th). What else should I be considering?

Magic Missile: 1d4+1, max 5, up to 5 targets. SR applies.

Orb of Force: 1d6, max 10, 1 target, no save or SR.

What stats would fill in spells to fit these themes at 2nd and 3rd?

Have you checked out the Spell Compendium? It's got a lot of [Force] spells at various levels, including damaging ones.

[Jack Simth]

Originally Posted by Elephant

The WOTC stuff I can think of at the moment includes Magic Missile(1st) and Orb of Force(4th). What else should I be considering?

Magic Missile: 1d4+1, max 5, up to 5 targets. SR applies.

Orb of Force: 1d6, max 10, 1 target, no save or SR.

What stats would fill in spells to fit these themes at 2nd and 3rd?

Well, as this is the House Rules forum.....

Consider what would be worth an increase/decrease in spell level - would permitting SR and/or a Save an Orb of Force be worth dropping it a level (making it a 3rd level spell - a single-target force-based Fireball, effectively)? Would changing the 1d4+1 damage per Magic Missle to, say, 1d4+(1/caster level, max +5) be worth raising the level on a Magic Missle spell? If you can convince your DM that such is the case (or you are the DM), well, you can then research them.

Alternately, you could research an Arcane verson of Spiritual Weapon with the same mechanics at the same spell level.

[Elephant]

Originally Posted by Sir Brennen

Don't forget shield is a Force spell, too.

Yes, but I'm looking for ATTACK spells

IRT Caliban:

I haven't had a chance to look at the Spell Compendium. Perhaps I should pick it up.

IRT Jack Simth:

I don't think saves on Force effects are appropriate. SR, though, is another story. Actually, I have a hard time swallowing a no-SR Force spell - how do you conjure up a physical force and throw it at someone? With an Orb of Fire, you can at least justify it as "well, it's sort of like you throw a ball of burning pitch at someone - SR won't help there".

As for spell level, damage, and SR, I was thinking maybe something along the lines of (comparisons done at CL 10=these spells maxed out):
1: (MM) 10-25 (5d4+5), SR allowed
2: ? 10-25, no SR?
3: ? 10-60, SR allowed?
4: 10-60 (10d6), no SR

or perhaps:

1: (MM) 10-25, SR allowed
2: ? 10-45 (5d8+5), SR allowed
3: ? 10-60, SR allowed?
4: 10-60, no SR

Hmm...at CL 12, Scorching Ray does up to 12d6 fire damage, SR applies. I could see making it Force Ray as a third level spell, though that might still be a bit too good.

I also thought about comparing to Melf's Acid Arrow, but the mechanics don't compare very well.

[Jack Simth]

Originally Posted by Elephant

Yes, but I'm looking for ATTACK spells

IRT Caliban:

I haven't had a chance to look at the Spell Compendium. Perhaps I should pick it up.

IRT Jack Simth:

I don't think saves on Force effects are appropriate.

There's a save involved if you place Explosive Runes on a bunch of extra spellbooks, have the cleric ready actions to Dispel (at minimum caster level....) and have the fighter (you know what happens when those monsters get hit with a dispel - YOU'RE not carrying them....) throw them at the feet of an opponent - BLAM - force explosion, 6d6, reflex half. A Will save might be interesting - your aura reacts to the incoming energies and tries to siphon them off or something....

Originally Posted by Elephant

SR, though, is another story. Actually, I have a hard time swallowing a no-SR Force spell - how do you conjure up a physical force and throw it at someone? With an Orb of Fire, you can at least justify it as "well, it's sort of like you throw a ball of burning pitch at someone - SR won't help there".

Does a golem walk through a Wall of Force, or does it stop him just like everything else? Do you have issues with that one? As the flavortext doesn't spell how Force works too terribly much, they could be related.

Originally Posted by Elephant

As for spell level, damage, and SR, I was thinking maybe something along the lines of (comparisons done at CL 10=these spells maxed out):
1: (MM) 10-25 (5d4+5), SR allowed
2: ? 10-25, no SR?
3: ? 10-60, SR allowed?
4: 10-60 (10d6), no SR

or perhaps:

1: (MM) 10-25, SR allowed
2: ? 10-45 (5d8+5), SR allowed
3: ? 10-60, SR allowed?
4: 10-60, no SR

Hmm...at CL 12, Scorching Ray does up to 12d6 fire damage, SR applies. I could see making it Force Ray as a third level spell, though that might still be a bit too good.

I also thought about comparing to Melf's Acid Arrow, but the mechanics don't compare very well.

At such a point, it's up to the DM to say what is and is not balanced for the campaign, and abide by the DM's ruling. It's entirely possible the DM will simply say "no".

[Caliban]

A few Force spells fFrom the Spell Compendium:



Level 2: Blast of Force (1d6 per 2 lvls, max 5d6)-Single target missile.

Level 3: Chain Missile (1d4+1 per 2 lvls, max missiles) -missiles hit single target, then single missiles hit secondary targets.

Level 3: Manyjaws (swarm of teeth that do damage every round)