Working up a Flexible Magic System

[indyjoe]

I'm looking for feedback on a more flexible magic system I'm creating. I know there are some very freeform magic systems, but I'm looking for something that uses the existing 3.5 OGL fantasy spells and lets the caster tweak them by changing the range, duration, area, #HD affected, # of dice of damage, etc. By reusing these spells, I feel the system will be a little more familiar and the core effects of the spell would be clear.

So the system I'm working up allows a spellcaster to alter the range, duration, area of effect, damage and other factors of base spells. Costs are assigned to these variable factors and they are multiplied with the spell's base cost to determine the spell's point cost. (Unfortunately, the variable factors vary based on each spell because for some spells changing one factor makes a big difference game-balance-wise and for other spells changing the same factor doesn't matter much. Note: I do feel very strongly that these numbers need to be multiplied to accurately reflect the spell's cost. For example if you want a spell to last a full day and affect 5 targets, you can't just add a constant for the duration and constant for the number of targets. But usually the multiplication is easy math such as 2 x 3 x .5 x 4 = 12) The point cost is then deducted from the caster's daily allotment of spell points. The new spell system includes changes for each spellcasting class so each class is given a number of spell points per day based on the caster's level and ability modifier.

The spells used are the familiar core spells such as Mage Armor, Sleep, Fireball, Wall of Force, etc. Because many players already know these spells, the system is easier to master yet it gives spellcasters added flexibility. For example, if a player wants to cast Mage Armor but he wants the spell to last an entire day he can just modify the duration of the spell and the spell's cost will be a little more than the basic version.

In the example, Mage Armor that lasts just one hour would cost 8 points. (Spells where the variables closely match first level spells are all around 8 points in the system.) To make it a full day would requires a multiplier of 3, so if no other changes are made the cost would be 24 points. (24 points is the equivalent of a little more than a 3rd level spell in the system.)

Obviously, the system adds some complexity to spellcasting. To add major flexibility to spellcasting and preserve game-balance, some complexity is a side effect. But there are some ways to minimize the complexity.

Does this sound interesting and something you would look at and consider adding to your game? ("NO" is a helpful answer also.) What constructive criticism do you have? Thank you!

Here's a link to the work in progress: Flexible Magic System

[Aus_Snow]

Sounds rather a lot like metamagic. Is that type of feat just not workin' out for ya? Not enough feat slots to reach the desired level of flexibility, perhaps? You could always up the feat per level count, to say, 1 per 2, or even 1 for 1. IME, this does absolutely nothing to 'unbalance' 3e, and a lot to make it more fun for players. Complexity doesn't noticeably increase, either.

I generally look to tweaking and reusing code - so to speak - before creating entirely new subsystems and the like. Not that I'm opposed to doing so, if that's what's needed in the end, mind you.

[Hawken]

Actually it sounds almost exactly like the Elements of Magic system (or Revised Elements of Magic). I think you should check that source out before you put too much more effort into your system. I think they beat you to the draw!

[Aus_Snow]

Originally Posted by Hawken

Actually it sounds almost exactly like the Elements of Magic system (or Revised Elements of Magic).

Not so much.

Originally Posted by indyjoe

I know there are some very freeform magic systems, but I'm looking for something that uses the existing 3.5 OGL fantasy spells and lets the caster tweak them by changing the range, duration, area, #HD affected, # of dice of damage, etc. By reusing these spells, I feel the system will be a little more familiar and the core effects of the spell would be clear.

But anyway, I suspect neither your suggestion nor my own 'suggestion' (i.e., stated preference, and kinda query/advice) will appeal very much, fwiw.

[indyjoe]

Thanks for the comments so far.
I do own Elements of Magic, but what I'm trying to describe is quite a bit different. If I remember EoM correctly, it is more freeform than what I'm putting together.

Metamagic feats sort of address what I'm getting at, but I'm looking for something that is a key part of the system. Metamagic feats are sort of a band aid, IMO, and sort of added on to the system instead of being integral to it. Also, they aren't very well balanced in that each feat (say the one affecting duration for example) may be very important for some spells, but less important to other spells, yet the cost is to change the duration is the same.

[Herzog]

If I am not mistaken, what you are doing is in fact combining several castings into one casting (The Mage Armor could also have been cast three times, each time when the previous one ended), sometimes even at a discount (multiple targets go at half the price)

I couldn't find an example on how you plan to handle range and area of effect changes (as in: couldn't find the cost, only the 'variable choices' you provided) but I assume they will use a similar multiplication.

I don't see anything wrong with this system, although I would advise against giving a discount for multiple targets Also, try to determine how many castings would be necessary to cover a target area, and use that as a multiplication for areas.
Changes for range could be linear, although there is a reason those don't scale as fast as area and/or damage does.

You could also take a look at how Psionics use additional Power Points to improve various Powers. (they don't scale with level but increase with invested power points instead)

[indyjoe]

Originally Posted by Herzog

If I am not mistaken, what you are doing is in fact combining several castings into one casting (The Mage Armor could also have been cast three times, each time when the previous one ended), sometimes even at a discount (multiple targets go at half the price)

First, thanks for the constructive criticism. Taking the Mage Armor example, yes, one could cast it multiple times. Say 3 times because you may have 3 encounters that day. Or you can pay extra points to make the duration 1 day. In the system, you'd pay 3/2 (because the duration for one day multiplies the cost by 3 instead of multiplying it by 2 for the traditional 1 hour version) the points. Mapping the spell point cost back to the spell levels, that makes it a 2nd level spell instead of a 1st level spell. (Assuming no other changes are made to the spell.) That makes sense to me, but if that seems too cheap and it gets abused, we could make the 1 day duration multiple higher than 3. (This is still early so I'm still tweaking things.)

Originally Posted by Herzog

I couldn't find an example on how you plan to handle range and area of effect changes (as in: couldn't find the cost, only the 'variable choices' you provided) but I assume they will use a similar multiplication.

Hmmm, I tried to spell out the costs in each spell's chart. For example with Mage Armor, the range cost mulitpliers are Touch: 1; Close (25'): 1.5; Medium (100'): 2; Long (400'): 3; Far (1000'): 4

So if you want to affect one target who you can touch, the multiplier is 1. If you want to send the spell to an ally 50' away, it is medium range so the cost is 2x. If you want to affect 4 people within 25', the multiple is 1.5x but there is also a multiplier for the increased number of targets.

Originally Posted by Herzog

I don't see anything wrong with this system, although I would advise against giving a discount for multiple targets Also, try to determine how many castings would be necessary to cover a target area, and use that as a multiplication for areas.
Changes for range could be linear, although there is a reason those don't scale as fast as area and/or damage does.

I'll try to be careful about the targets giving too much of a discount, and may have to go back and rework things. I've felt that if the spell affects designated targets I shouldn't give a discount, but if it is an area of effect where the caster can't target specific creatures (like sleep) then a discount could apply. I also reverse engineered the "Mass" versions of spells like Cat's Grace to try to get a set of multipliers that results in a roughly equivalent spell.

Changes for all spells can be linear or more... it is all about finding the right progression that is balanced for hopefully all variations of the spell.