Low Magic/Classic Swords/Sorcery in D&D 3.X

[Votan]

I am just playing around, in my head, with how one might do a more classical swords and sorcery campaign using D&D 3.X; think King Arthur, Lord of the Rings or Conan.

If one restricted oneself to the PHB, DMG and MM (maybe complete warriror???) then the creep in spellpower would be mitigated. Similarily, the elite array might also make power curves less impressive.

I am curious as to thoughts about any or all of the following house rules:

Looking at the PHB spells only, removing all transmutation and conjuration spells (except the Conjuration (healing)) subtype --> Does this leave obvious mechanical holes?

The only thing I could come up with is that the Druid looks rather good, all of a sudden.

Is alignment (for PCs as opposed to outsiders and undead) really needed in modern D&D?

Is a 20 level limit a serious concern?

What about a magic item pool? The idea is to make wealth per level a limit on how much magic a character can use (bond) -- with crafting feats people would end up with enough picked items that melee classes still do well at higher levels but one doesn't have to monitor wealth as closely (one can overshoot a bit). Maybe make a limit that no one item can exceed 50% of the wealth by level size?

Are prestige classes required to make the game interesting?

What about fractional BAB and Saves? Or does the book version work just as well?


Thoughts, comments, criticisms? Or should I just go with D&D 4.0 which seems to have this flavor out of the box?

[Aus_Snow]

Or should I just go with D&D 4.0 which seems to have this flavor out of the box?

If you feel that that is so, then why not? I mean, personally, I could hardly imagine a fantasy RPG further removed from that genre/style/mode of play. But hey, if 4e seems like it would work, to you, then that's what matters. You can but try. . .

As for modifying 3e to go low magic / S&S, that's something I've done in more than one way, over several years. It's a matter of taste, of course, but I've found some combination of the following house rules can help:

* Use a damage/Toughness save or wound/injury levels in place of HP, or simply reduce HP a heck of a lot (particularly increases by level), possibly with the addition of a *much* lower MDS DC (based on Con, generally). The Grim 'n Gritty variant ruleset is one way to go about this.

* Limit spellcasting a lot, for example by increasing the class levels required to gain new spell levels to 3 instead of 2 (i.e., 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th. . .) and reducing bonus spells per day from ability scores to *zero* across the board - there are plenty of other ways, too (e.g., skill rolls for casting, fatigue->exhaustion->unconsciousness from casting, etc.) The Legends of Sorcery supplement, for instance, combines the latter two methods, and does a whole lot more besides.

* Limit magic items a lot, and make each one that is found or fought for special (possibly even unique). But certainly, the Christmas Tree issue can really kill 'low magic' or 'S&S' deader than nearly anything else. Mostly, you're likely to be on your own here, making judgement calls, and adjusting areas/encounters/adventures to suit, in some cases. An alternative to this 'eyeballing' approach is to go with a [hella watered down] Vow of Poverty for all, to negate the need for specific items and all that.

* Remove Raise Dead entirely.

* Double XP needed to level up.

* Consider lowering the upper limit on levels from 20 to whatever, and converting a number of important high-level spells to rituals/incantations/'epic' spells. Example: E6. Mind you, I might go a bit higher than that, if using the adjusted spell level gains, mentioned above. 7, at the very least, depending on the flavour you're hoping for.

* Add critical hit effects and/or other kinds of specific wounds. Examples of supplements include Torn Asunder: Critical Hits, or Broken Bones and Wounds, Bruises and Blood.

* Taint and Sanity are a couple of nice Unearthed Arcana options, which can certainly make life more 'interesting' for spellcasters. And sometimes for everyone eles, of course.

* I like the Paladin and Ranger from Complete Champion better than the originals, though they're still (IMO) not that great as classes go, and not particularly appropriate for S&S style campaigns. But still, they're better for that than the normal, spellcasting types.

* On the topic of 'necessary' magic items, I posted a link to hong's Innate Magic house rules in a thread about the 'big six' in the 3e rules forum today, and it just occurred to me that it might be relevant here as well.


Or, if this all seems like too much bother, just use another system (er, other than 4e, IMNSHO) - like. . . True20, Conan: The Roleplaying Game, or heck, a totally unrelated thing, such as Pendragon (fourth edition's my fave) or Runequest. Or one of a thousand other alternatives. . .

[Jlord]

I would have to agree with E6. it's existence was brought by the exact same question that you are asking, thus diffidently worth a look for you. Click HERE for a link to the rules.

By using E6 you shouldn't have to change anything and it should fit.

[Stringburka]

Aus Snow seems to be spot on according to me.

You could even go as far as banning roleplaying spellcasters if you want the feel of LotR and the like; remember, in LotR wizards are more or less half-gods, and still, the most powerful think Gandalf does is setting fire to conifer corns. Or make them into PrC's.

And I think what Aus Snow said on magic items is KEY to making magic items feel magic overall; i'd never go with a Christmas Tree approach even in a regular D&D game. There's no problem with powerful magic items in a campaign like this; both LotR and King Arthur involves powerful magic items. However, make them few, mythical, and UNIQUE. A +5 Heavy Mace might be powerful, but it isn't very interesting. Make it the petrified tongue of a dragon, being a +2 flaming burst heavy mace that deal 1d4 fire damage to the wielder per turn; now we're talking.

I always try to make nearly every magic item in such a campaign have a drawback. If I go E6, where the highest-level spell castable by normal mortals would be 3, I might create a scroll of Create Undead that require the sacrifice of an intelligent being that loves the caster to be used. That kind of things make for great plot devices.

[the_orc_within]

I'll back the E6 (or EX) option; I personally really enjoy D&D done this way. (And as for druids: I just made them a prestige class.)

I've also used Wounds/Vitality (houseruled to be a bit more brutal than RAW) to good effect, along with limited cure/heal magic (replaced by less effective alchemical/herbal medicine).

I'm mulling over using Defense Bonuses and Armor as DR in my next campaign to limit PC's dependence on magic items, as well.

[Votan]

Originally Posted by the_orc_within

I'll back the E6 (or EX) option; I personally really enjoy D&D done this way. (And as for druids: I just made them a prestige class.)

I've also used Wounds/Vitality (houseruled to be a bit more brutal than RAW) to good effect, along with limited cure/heal magic (replaced by less effective alchemical/herbal medicine).

I'm mulling over using Defense Bonuses and Armor as DR in my next campaign to limit PC's dependence on magic items, as well.

E6 looks pretty amazing to me, actually. And I like the idea of having rituals for higher level spells (aka restoration). It seems to accomplish a lot for very little cost. It also (mostly) avoids prestige class balance issues as it is hard to get many levels of a prestige class by level 6 . . .

I put 4th edition D&D into low magic territory not because of the lack of spells being cast (they occur in huge numbers) but because the spells that I am finding awkward to balance (haste, fly, teleport, polymorph, domination) are either absent, greatly reduced in frequency or exist as high level rituals.