Good Alternatives to Druids and Wildshaping?

[Korimyr the Rat]

A little background. I'm planning on running a d20 game after a couple of years of swearing off the stuff. I'm using a heavily house-ruled combination of D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder rules, and I am using the Gestalt rule variant from Unearthed Arcana.

I wish to preserve the Druid role of a divine spellcaster in tune with the natural world, but I think wildshape is a godawful mess requiring too much recordkeeping and allowing horrific abuses. I'm also not a fan of shapeshifting in general and believe it should be considerably rarer than a 5th level ability in a base class. I'm considering the Aspect of Nature variant from Unearthed Arcana.

Does anyone have any recommendations for good alternate Druids or good alternate class features which I can use?

Some considerations:

• The other divine casters are Cleric and Shugenja. Clerics are much more capable healers-- possessing both Lay on Hands and Channel Energy from Pathfinder. Shugenja, in addition to their elemental focus, killed the Void Disciple and took his stuff. Paladin has been removed and Ranger does not cast spells.
• In general, classes are a bit stronger than their Pathfinder incarnations, but they are more focused on their specialties. Feat and class ability options allow characters to blend their Gestalt together more.
• I've looked over the various "shaman" classes and would rather avoid classes that have heavy focus on "spirits".
• This is for a Spelljammer game, so characters need to be able to function relatively well in cities, on ships, and off planets.

Help me, EN World Community! You're my only hope!

[Ashtagon]

Have you looked at the shapeshifting variant class ability for druids from PHB2? That has been commonly seen as a good fix for wildshape.

[Celebrim]

Green Ronin's Shaman class is what I use in place of druids.

They go out of there way to not step on the Druid's toes with the spell list, but its pretty easy to fix that. Add any druid spell which is not also a domain spell to the Shaman's spell list.

My reservations against the druid are pretty much the same as yours, but in addition I had a serious reservation against the druid because the druid is in its inspiration so limited to a single culture. Although no credible source of druidaic worship and religious practices survives*, it seems to me very likely that Druids are to me nothing more than the western European version of the sort of animist priest that exists world wide in nomadic and early agarian cultures. What I didn't want for my campaign was to shoehorn the druid class into a bunch of cultures and roles that it didn't really belong, simply because it was a base class for the campaign. So, instead, I took the Shaman as the base class and suggest that if you want to play a 'Druid' that you simply dress the Shaman in druid 'robes' and trappings, give it the appropriate plant and animal totems, and perhaps ask your DM to provide feats that help the Shaman feel more like a druid to you.

If you really must have wildshaping in a campaign, I think that it should be a spell just as shapechange is. Wildshape (and really any shapechanging) isn't really broken until you add the ability to retain your class features (like spellcasting) to your shapechanged form, so the spell with suitable restrictions is probably a fine edition to play.

[the_orc_within]

You might consider making the Druid a prestige class, generally accessible only to nature clerics, rangers, and the like. For example, a prestige Druid class might have entry requirements: (1) Knowledge (Nature) 8 ranks; (2) ability to cast Calm Animals and/or Entangle as a divine spell; (3) the PC must be invited into a druidic order and prove himself worthy by passing a test of skills, completing a quest, or something similar.

I also second the suggestions to use the Nature's Aspect UA variant or the Shapeshift variant from PHB2, since both strip out a lot of the "abuseability" associated with druids.

[Korimyr the Rat]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to start looking into this Shaman business, starting with what I have in Oriental Adventures. Worst case scenario, I can accept shapeshifting as a disturbingly common power and use the Shapeshifting variant.

[Dannyalcatraz]

1) I just add that the OA Shaman 3.5 update in Dragon #317 made their IUS scale with level (like the Monk) and added bonus martial arts feats at 4th lvl, and every 4th level after that.

2) The Kingdom of Kalamar Shaman retains wild shape, but its to/from their totemic animal only.

3) The Greenbond from AU/AE is a very nice re-imagining of the Druid class- no wildshape. Instead, they can "bond with the green", thus learning what is happening in a given area, "infuse with life" (healing touch), and a few other powers. It is a class that speaks with spirits.

4) Regardless of your actual base class decision, you might want to consider the Geomancer PrCl, which fuses arcane and divine spellcasting and an emphasis on the power of nature...which in turn fuses natural aspects with your PC's anatomy. Maybe not the most powerful PrCl, but definitely flavorful.

[Korimyr the Rat]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

1) I just add that the OA Shaman 3.5 update in Dragon #317 made their IUS scale with level (like the Monk) and added bonus martial arts feats at 4th lvl, and every 4th level after that.

Yeah, but Gestalt. And the OA Shaman always felt more like a Cleric to me.

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

2) The Kingdom of Kalamar Shaman retains wild shape, but its to/from their totemic animal only.

3) The Greenbond from AU/AE is a very nice re-imagining of the Druid class- no wildshape. Instead, they can "bond with the green", thus learning what is happening in a given area, "infuse with life" (healing touch), and a few other powers. It is a class that speaks with spirits.

Those sound like good ideas. I'll look into them.

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

4) Regardless of your actual base class decision, you might want to consider the Geomancer PrCl, which fuses arcane and divine spellcasting and an emphasis on the power of nature...which in turn fuses natural aspects with your PC's anatomy. Maybe not the most powerful PrCl, but definitely flavorful.

I had a burst of inspiration today and have nearly finished one possible version of the Druid-- which was, indeed, inspired by the Geomancer and the Aspects of Nature variant from Unearthed Arcana. Instead of shapeshifting, Druids slowly accumulate physical changes that give them extra abilities. These range from basic things like low-light vision and scent, to more extreme changes like being able to breathe water or grow wings.

Only thing I'm really missing is a good 20th level capstone ability. Unfortunately, Pathfinder is no help here as their Druid capstone is the ability to wild shape at will.

Of course, I am still very much interested in other suggestions and other directions I might go.

[Celebrim]

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

These range from basic things like low-light vision and scent, to more extreme changes like being able to breathe water or grow wings.

Why aren't those just spells?

It sounds like a snarky question, and I apologize, but I find the accumulation of a fixed list of abilities to be an extremely inelegant design for a base class.

It seems to me that the ability to breathe underwater, see in low light, to acquire the scent extraordinary ability, and to grow wings are all simply one sort of customized spell list. This character has on his spell list the 0th level spell, 'low light vision', the first level spell 'scent', and the 3rd level spells 'bird's flight' and 'water breathing'. But if breathing water or flying like a bird doesn't fit the conception of this character (he's a desert shaman specializing in lizard, sand, and fire magic), then why saddle the character class with a bunch of choices that the character doesn't want?

If you really must have a character with innate ability to do this or that, give the class the ability to every couple of levels select a spell from its spell list that targets self that automatically has enhanced duration (minutes per level rather than rounds per level or hours per level rather than 10 minutes per level). Or create feats that say something like, 'If you have 'scent' on your spell list, you can cast it as a quickened spell-like ability 3 times per day.', or 'If you have 'spider climb' on your spell list, you can cast it as a quickened spell-like ability 3 times per day.'. So long as the spell in the feat is more flavor and simple utility than broken part of a tactical combo, a feat like that should be balanced while providing alot of color and flexibility in character creation.

It's also less likely to be a problem than any character power that is limited only by endurance.

The important thing I think is to create one class that does all the jobs you want, rather than needing a half dozen or more different base classes just to fill different 'talks to spirits and works magic' roles.

[Sylrae]

Take a look at Project Phoenix' Druid. It doesn't wildshape, but has 6 or 7 other paths, like weather control, animal control, plant control, etc. It's pretty sweet.

The Pathfinder polymorph and wildshaping rules make wildshape alot less broken than it was before though.

[Korimyr the Rat]

Originally Posted by Celebrim

Why aren't those just spells?

It sounds like a snarky question, and I apologize, but I find the accumulation of a fixed list of abilities to be an extremely inelegant design for a base class.

It isn't a fixed list. They're chosen from a list, and there are considerably more options that there are opportunities to select them. And the reason they're not just spells is so that the Druid has to waste neither prepared spells nor spell slots on them-- unless he needs to apply them to other characters.

And looking back, I realize I wasn't nearly clear enough about this in my earlier post. My apologies.

Originally Posted by Celebrim

The important thing I think is to create one class that does all the jobs you want, rather than needing a half dozen or more different base classes just to fill different 'talks to spirits and works magic' roles.

That's what I'm trying to do here with the different aspects. I'm trying to build one solid "nature priest" class, that covers as much of the old Druid as possible and allows the player to specialize in those aspects that interest him.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Well, if you're designing something, why not crib some abilities from the Shifters and/or Changelings from Eberron to replace Wild Shape?

The Shifter's ability to adopt some minor bestial features coupled with the Geomancer's Drift list could be interesting. Meld them into one expanded list of temporary shifts... Imagine the PC adopting a barklike skin, wing or claws, as the situation merits...but without actually changing their shape entirely.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

Yeah, but Gestalt. And the OA Shaman always felt more like a Cleric to me.

What do you mean by your "Gestalt" comment?

Yes, that Shaman is more like a Cleric in some ways, but you can make it very naturey with the selection of domains and spirit guides.

[Dannyalcatraz]

You might also want to check out the Totemist from Magic of Incarnum.

[Korimyr the Rat]

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

What do you mean by your "Gestalt" comment?

Means that the Shaman is essentially a class that serves partially as a stripped down Cleric and partially as a stripped down Monk. In a Gestalt environment, it either ends up sacrificing too many of its abilities to overlap or being too powerful when combined with one of the classes it's intended to meld. (Not applicable in the Shaman case, but there's a third outcome: allowing two classes to function effectively as two and three quarters.)

Compare a Monk//Cleric to a Monk 2/Shaman X//Cleric X + 2. Or either a Fighter//Psychic Warrior or an Ardent//Psychic Warrior to a Fighter/Ardent.

An example of the other problem is Psychic Warrior//Rogue and Fighter//Psychic Rogue, compared to any combination between Fighter or Rogue and Psion or Ardent.

Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz

Yes, that Shaman is more like a Cleric in some ways, but you can make it very naturey with the selection of domains and spirit guides.

I'll have to give it another good look over.

[Dannyalcatraz]

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

Means that the Shaman is essentially a class that serves partially as a stripped down Cleric and partially as a stripped down Monk.

Ah! I'd never seen the term used that way before, but now I understand.