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I was getting all jazzed about the prospect of playing one of the non-Core classes for the first time since...well since 3.0 got released. Then the DM felt my joy and crushed it, telling me (among other things):
Quote:
...the war mage is not really appropriate to the world I have
in mind. I will allow a sorcerer that instead of being able to summon a
familar may have two extra feats (presumably Battle Caster and Armor
Proficiency (light).)
(more on that later)
and
Quote:
1. We will just be using the standard creation method found in the PHB.
2. We will just be using the standard classes in the PHB.
...
4. Feats may be taken from Complete Arcane, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer and the PHB.
5. No prestige classes will be used. Any ability you feel you must have will be constructed from feats.
Of course, its not all bad news- we're starting off at 3rd Lvl.
I know the concept & background I have in mind is still workable, but I'm going to need some help- the DM has borrowed my entire Complete series. I still want to be as "Warmage-ey" as possible.
The PC in question will be a CG Elf or half-elf with a strong affinity for electrical type spells. I won't be using Sleep or Magic Missile for ANY reason- I don't like them, and at least one was absent from the Warmage list.
There is a 2nd level Warmage spell that lets the caster throw a slashing weapon with which he is proficient and have it do an attack & damage to all targets within a certain area of effect (using his Cha modifiers intsead of Str). I was planning to optimize by having taking levels in a class that got the PC a martial weapon proficiency in Greataxe or 2hd sword- that would have doubled the damage/casting. Would its area be affected by Sculpt Spell? Is that spell also on the Sorc/Wiz list? If not, I might not multiclass this PC.
The feats under consideration this time:
1) Reach Spell (makes touch spells into ranged touch spells)
2) Split Ray (doubles # of rays from a ray spell)
3) Weapon Focus: Ranged Touch Spells
4) Point Blank Shot (improve utility of his archery & ranged touch spells)
5) Precise Shot (improve utility of his archery & ranged touch spells)
6) Empower Spell (50% increase in variables related to a spell, inc. damage)
7) Sculpt Spell (change spell's area of effect)
8) Ranged Spell Specialization (further improve accuracy with ranged touch spells)
9) Arcane Strike (channel spell energy into melee strikes- based on spell level)*
10) Arcane Disciple (Air domain)
11) Energy Substitution (bump number of electrical spells)
12) Weapon Finesse (its in my notes- how does it interact with weaponlike spells again?)
13) Practiced Spellcaster (down the road)
14) Combat Casting (utility)
15) Energy Admixture (a little jolt in EVERY attack spell)
16) Battle Caster (pending ruling on how he thinks it will work with Sorcerer)
17) Consecrate Spell (a little goodness in every attack spell)
* The campaign info includes a background that says that flashy magic might get you in trouble with "EEEEEVIL POWERS", so Arcane Strike has even MORE reason to be used.
Battle Caster, as written, is completely useless to a sorcerer.
It improves an existing ability to ignore ASF in armor; it does not grant that ability to someone who does not possess it.
Whirling Blade is a Sor/Wiz 2, and a 60 foot line... so Sculpt Spell will work just fine. As an elf, you'd be proficient with longsword; you could see if you could swing the FR regional feat 'Militia' for all martial weapon proficiencies, to avoid the caster level hit when looking for greatsword. Alternatively, use a Large Longsword: -2 on attack rolls, but at least you're proficient, and it does damage equivalent to a greatsword.
-Hyp.
Last edited by Hypersmurf; 18th July 2006 at 01:34 AM..
It improves an existing ability to ignore ASF in armor; it does not grant that ability to someone who does not possess it.
I know- I pointed this out to him, but he has yet to respond.
I even pointed out that if he wants to let my PC take it with Armor Prof. Lt, as he suggested and let it work, that leads to problems with my concept which I already told him would probably include warrior multiclassing.
Quote:
Whirling Blade is a Sor/Wiz 2, and a 60 foot line... so Sculpt Spell will work just fine. As an elf, you'd be proficient with longsword; you could see if you could swing the FR regional feat 'Militia' for all martial weapon proficiencies, to avoid the caster level hit when looking for greatsword. Alternatively, use a Large Longsword: -2 on attack rolls, but at least you're proficient, and it does damage equivalent to a greatsword.
Cool...I like that spell! If I go Elf, I might not multiclass with a warrior class- 1d8/hit would be sufficient without losing spellpower or burning a precious feat.
I know he won't let us use FR stuff...My guess at this point is that we may be using some of the stuff from Black Company- a series he loves and a sourcebook I gave him as a prezzie- but I don't own it myself.
D'ya think a PC needs both Energy Substitution AND Sculpt Spell? There is a little overlap in their effect, after all, but not all energy spells have area effects, and not all AE spells do energy damage.
Honestly? I would ask him to let you use the Battle Sorcerer variant from Unearthed Arcana.. you lose some spells but get fighting ability (d8 hit die, cast in light armor, etc.) Hopefully he will let you.. otherwise at 3rd level you aren't really going to be a "war" anything..
Looks liek your DM is too restrictive, and does not want to take the effort to fit a fairly common class into his game world.
Seriously "is not really appropriate"? Even if the campaign is so magic-rare that there arent any mages trained for war, it is not unrealistic to say that several mages have paid more attention to the martial arts/destructive spells than normal. Its like the school of thought saying that rogues must go around stealing stuff, stabbing people in their sleep, etc.
I've been gaming with this guy for 20 years or so. The surprise was that he considered a non-Core class at all before nixing it.
The "reason" for the ban, however, has at least the semblance of a legitimate campaign-specific reason. The campaign world as he has described it is something like Midnight- there are no schools of magic, and magic practitioners can get themselves in trouble if they appear to be too powerful. This goes exactly opposite of the flavor text of the Warmage class, so I don't have a real problem with it...even though it ignores the fact that RW Eastern monks & Capoirists did perfectly fine developing their martial arts under the watchful eyes of oppressors...
As for the Battle Sorcerer, I don't think it will pass muster either. I handed him UA a week ago to ask him about Racial Paragon classes and Bloodlines and have heard nothing but grumbles about it. No definite answers either way, though- fingers crossed.
Smurf : Erm yea i dont think we were discussing whether a DM is "allowed" to control the available material for his campaign.
If the DM wants to rule that wizards get spontaneous casting, all proficiencies, can cast in all armor without penalty, infinite spells per day, start with all spells known, can fly at 1000 feet(perfect) and rolls 1,000,000d1 for HP per level, with a cantrip that instant kills over-deities, all the power to him.
Danny : Ah i see, the "core only!" type. I see. Well you are up against the wall of china. Good luck.
What are the penalties for using an oversized longsword with Monkey Grip?
Another consideration to up the Whirling Blade damage was to eventually get my hands on a magically tempered gold or platinum slashing weapon- see Magic of Faerun (which he might permit)- and take the Exotic Weapon proficiency Heavy Weapon Feat...which would bump a 1d8 or 1d10 to 2d6 or 1d12 to 2d8.
Monkey grip is a horrible feat.....you take a -2 penalty to hit with it. This doesnt seem like much, until you consider that in most cases you are getting an average of 2 damage, and you can power attack for 4 damage with a 2H weapon with that penalty.
What are the penalties for using an oversized longsword with Monkey Grip?
For the purposes of Whirling Blades, Monkey Grip's a waste for a longsword; it doesn't matter to you whether it's a one-handed or two-handed weapon you're throwing.
If you had greatsword proficiency, using Monkey Grip for a Large greatsword for Whirling Blades might be interesting...
I was asking because of the suggestion you made about using a Large longsword with the spell...but I hadn't even considered a Large 2handed weapon...
Hmmmmmmm
I figured out that to get Point Blank Shot & Precise shot, its in my PC's best interests to take 2 levels of Fighter, so he WILL be proficient in Greatsword or Greataxe...
AND it dovetails nicely with the concept of the PC being a Half-Elf with some Storm Giant in his family history...(His name, Myrskytar Keitolainen, is literal Finnish for "Spirit of the Storm Elf")...
I was asking because of the suggestion you made about using a Large longsword with the spell...but I hadn't even considered a Large 2handed weapon...
Hmmmmmmm
I figured out that to get Point Blank Shot & Precise shot, its in my PC's best interests to take 2 levels of Fighter, so he WILL be proficient in Greatsword or Greataxe...
AND it dovetails nicely with the concept of the PC being a Half-Elf with some Storm Giant in his family history...(His name, Myrskytar Keitolainen, is literal Finnish for "Spirit of the Storm Elf")...
That spell could get stupid.
You don't need to be using a whacky weapon to do rediculous damage with Whirling Blade. You just need to power attack with a two-handed weapon, and possibly Wraithstrike (Complete Adventurer?), which makes your attacks ignore armor, natural armor, and shields. Raising your greatsword from 2d6 to 3d6 is hardly worth the effort, at that point.
Power Attack requires a Str minimum of 13. Merely wielding a 2handed sword doesn't...
Although, in all honesty, I can't recall the prerequisites for Monkey grip, and since my DM still has all the Completes, I can't look it up. Ditto for Wraithstrike.
Besides, a raise of 2d6 to 3d6 is a 50% increase in damage...just like an increase from 1d6 to 2d6 (what you get from going from a the biggest Simple slashing weapon to the biggest Martial Slashing weapon).
You don't need to be using a whacky weapon to do rediculous damage with Whirling Blade. You just need to power attack with a two-handed weapon, and possibly Wraithstrike (Complete Adventurer?), which makes your attacks ignore armor, natural armor, and shields. Raising your greatsword from 2d6 to 3d6 is hardly worth the effort, at that point.
Don't forget that you can arguably use Arcane Strike with whirling blade as well.
Wraithstrike is one of the most broken spells ever made by WotC. It is 2nd level, a swift action, and makes your entire round of attacks count as touch attacks (hello Power Attack!). If your GM allows it, it would be foolish not to take this with an Eldritch Knight gish. However, be wary, as it may convince your GM not to allow Complete-series stuff if he is that restrictive
Don't forget that you can arguably use Arcane Strike with whirling blade as well.
How? It was my reading of the feat (which could be wrong) that you channel a single spell's energy into a single melee attack- the first in how many ever iterative attacks you have, if you have any. A conservative reading of the interaction of such the feat with that spell would say you lose the ability to channel that energy through the weapon as soon as you throw it. A more expansive reading would only allow it on the first strike of the weapon thrown. Knowing my GM as I do, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go further than that.
Wraithstrike is in which sourcebook again?
Oh, and you probably missed/forgot- no PrCls- Core Base classes only.
Power Attack, regardless of weapon choice, will probably not be on the list- there are too many other Feats that help optimize other spells the Myrskytar Keitolainen will have. Furthermore, a PC with mostly D4 HD won't get much use out of the Feat except with this spell. Besides, its unliikely he'll even have the stats for it. I have to prioritize Cha of course, and Dex will be second for AC and ranged attack (arrows, grenade-like weapons & ranged touch attack spells) purposes. AFAIK, we're using 4d6 drop lowest for stat generation.
How? It was my reading of the feat (which could be wrong) that you channel a single spell's energy into a single melee attack- the first in how many ever iterative attacks you have, if you have any. A conservative reading of the interaction of such the feat with that spell would say you lose the ability to channel that energy through the weapon as soon as you throw it. A more expansive reading would only allow it on the first strike of the weapon thrown. Knowing my GM as I do, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go further than that.
I believe it affects a single melee weapon for one round, and affects all attacks made by that weapon in that round. Need to confirm against the text in Complete Warrior, though.
In no particular order:
How? It was my reading of the feat (which could be wrong) that you channel a single spell's energy into a single melee attack- the first in how many ever iterative attacks you have, if you have any. A conservative reading of the interaction of such the feat with that spell would say you lose the ability to channel that energy through the weapon as soon as you throw it. A more expansive reading would only allow it on the first strike of the weapon thrown. Knowing my GM as I do, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go further than that.
Arcane strike = bonus on all of your attack rolls (= to the level of the spell sacrificed) for 1 round as well as xd4(x=spell's level) damage to each attack. There is no way to enterpret this feat to apply to only the first attack. This feat is a must for gish because their to hit will lag behind a fighter and this can make that up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Wraithstrike is in which sourcebook again?.
It's in Complete Arcane. Everyone keeps saying how hidiously broken this spell is, but I just haven't seen it. I've played a Gish to 9th level (ftr 1/wiz6/KP3) so far: at early levels the I was better off with a scorching ray and even at 9th its a close call. The one time I got off the "big combo" (full power attack, wraithstrike and arcane strike a 3rd level spell) I equelled but did not exceed the damage I've routenely seen the raging barbarian do. At high levels the damage will be better - but so will many other things (and don't even talk about persisting it I have better things to do with 2 feats and limited 8th level spells).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Oh, and you probably missed/forgot- no PrCls- Core Base classes only.
I think your DM is being a bit short sighted by allowing no prestige classes, but hey it's his game. Since he is allowing some splat books, show him the Duskblade from PHBII it's not core but it is a "base class" and fits your concept pretty well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Power Attack, regardless of weapon choice, will probably not be on the list- there are too many other Feats that help optimize other spells the Myrskytar Keitolainen will have. Furthermore, a PC with mostly D4 HD won't get much use out of the Feat except with this spell. Besides, its unliikely he'll even have the stats for it. I have to prioritize Cha of course, and Dex will be second for AC and ranged attack (arrows, grenade-like weapons & ranged touch attack spells) purposes. AFAIK, we're using 4d6 drop lowest for stat generation.
If you're going for range, power attack is a waste of a feat. Then again, wraithstrike and arcane strike aren't to usefull at range either. On whirling blade - I've been underwelmed by this spell. I tried it a few times, but for it to really shine conditions have to be near perfect, and I've fallen away from using this spell.
After sending him a little info on my concept, he came up with this set of suggestions:
Make Myrskytar Keitolainen an Air Genasi (didn't think he'd let us do that) to incorporate the "stormy" side of his nature, and start him at Arcane Caster1/Ftr1...and sub the familiar for 2 special abilities- Armored Spellcasting and some version of Monkey Grip/Powerful Build.
Its not quite a Half-Elf with a trace of Storm Giant blood, but I am OK with this. I just have to decide whether the benefits of being an armored Sorcerer with a lot of spells & flexibility is outweighed by the hit to Charisma. Specialist Mage would give me nearly as many spells, but I couldn't Meta them on the fly, yada, yada, yada.
I'll add Wraithstrike to the list of spells to consider- its powerful, but I'm really leaning towards the ranged attacks- ray & orb touch spells; sculpted cones, balls, and lines of others. The big weapon is mainly for the PC backstory, the Whirling Blade spell shaped as the situation calls, as well as for *ahem* personal defense- especially with the Arcane Strike feat. Personally, I think that spell will do a decent job of clearing away mooks for the big boys in front, or at least dinging them a little...as well as hopefully disrupting a spell or 2.
As for the PHBII stuff: I bought the book the day it was released, and he borrowed it from me a few days later. I just got it back last week, after he said he wasn't using it.
Still, things aren't bad- I'm sitting here with racial abilities, Arcane Caster1/Ftr1, Lt. armored spellcasting, a big weapon, and a revised list of feats which needs to be pared down to the 9 he'll take over time:
1) Point Blank Shot (improve utility of his archery & ranged touch spells)
2) Precise Shot (improve utility of his archery & ranged touch spells)
3) Weapon Focus: Ranged Touch Spells
4) Energy Substitution: Electrical (bump number of electrical spells)
5) Ranged Spell Specialization (further improve accuracy with ranged touch spells)
6) Empower Spell (50% increase in variables related to a spell, inc. damage)
7) Sculpt Spell (change spell's area of effect)
8) Battle Caster (now that my PC will have Armored Spellcasting: Light)
9) Arcane Strike (channel spell energy into melee strikes- based on spell level)*
10) Split Ray (doubles # of rays from a ray spell)
11) Reach Spell (makes touch spells into ranged touch spells)
12) Combat Casting (utility)
13) Energy Admixture (a little jolt in EVERY attack spell)
In paring this down to 9, I'm thinking Admixture is an early one for the chopping block, but what about Split Ray and Reach Spell?
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We will just be using the standard creation method found in the PHB.
Linear Mode
