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I started thinking about this today. It's been a rule since 1E, but back then I think the justification was something along the lines of "they have alien
thought processes". 3E has no stated reason for it, though. Any ideas?
(The reason I ask is that I'm considering getting rid of it, but I want to see if someone can give me a good reason not to.)
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
I started thinking about this today. It's been a rule since 1E, but back then I think the justification was something along the lines of "they have alien
thought processes". 3E has no stated reason for it, though. Any ideas?
(The reason I ask is that I'm considering getting rid of it, but I want to see if someone can give me a good reason not to.)
Because mind affecting stuff is based on living creatures.
The ancient wizards/Clerics never researched non-living.
Really, it must have something to do with not living because constructs get it too.
__________________ "If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you."
and
"Go beyond the impossible, and kick reason to the curb" Kamina, from Gurren Lagann
Well, undead monsters having no-mind/soul was an odd concept indeed. If a ghost does not have mind and soul, what does it have? So, 4e finally removed this concept.
Maybe, if you dare to reason it in 3.5e, undead monsters do have minds but they are too different from minds of living creatures and thus cannot be affected by mind affecting effects. Or, it is something due to negative energy which is supporting their existence.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
I've always seen it as either they're mindless undead, zombies, skeletons, or what have you and therefore have no mind to affect, or they're intelligent undead who no longer perceive the world the same way as a living creature, so they tend to ignore anything that attempts to fool their senses and perceptions.
Really, it must have something to do with not living because constructs get it too.
Constructs don't have an Int score. No Int = mindless = immune to anything that affects the mind.
Quote:
I've always seen it as either they're mindless undead, zombies, skeletons, or what have you and therefore have no mind to affect, or they're intelligent undead who no longer perceive the world the same way as a living creature, so they tend to ignore anything that attempts to fool their senses and perceptions.
Agamemnon: "Their process of building each edition atop the previous ones has resulted in 3.5 being the Michael Jackson of RPGs, desperately improving itself to ward off obsolescence but attaining only a kind of perverse lichlike state as a mockery of healthier games."
Constructs don't have an Int score. No Int = mindless = immune to anything that affects the mind.
The Inevitables are constructs with Int scores, as is the homunculus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrick
That's a good reason. Thanks.
I'm more inclined to go with "the brains of nonliving creatures are fundamentally different from those of living creatures - so the stuff that messes with constructs and undead are fundamentally different (e.g., Control Undead is Necromancy, while Charm Monster is Enchantment).
__________________ Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
It's simply because they have no living brains, and thus no brain activity. Can't mess with the thoughts and actions of a critter when they have no working greymatter to manipulate. A vampire's got brains, but they're dead and inactive, so mind-affecting stuff can't do anything with the dead brain cells and their lack of activity.
Same reason why constructs are immune to mind-affecting effects; they lack any kind of living brain tissue, so no electrochemical organic processes to manipulate, let alone glands.
Undead only think and act through their soul and the manipulative forces of negative energy/necromantic magic that animates their corpse/spirit.
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I always thought it came more from the notion that undead 'minds' are set in stone.
For a zombie, it's pretty simple, they're either 'commanded' by their creator, or they just have the ghoulish neverending hunger for flesh. A ghoul hungers so much that it overrides any and every magical manipulation.
A ghost or a banshee is controlled by whatever reason they 'haunt' the world. If a ghost of a woman who lost her lover and then killed herself still haunts some old graveyard, it's not like she can just be shaken off by some spell. She only exists because she wants to get revenge for her death, and so revenge is the only motivator.
However, I will say that my reasons don't make 'undead' immune to mind effecting spells (as a blanket statement in 3e). It gives me a reason to make many undead immune, just not all.
__________________ Red Hand of Doom: IC I, IC II, OOC, RG
It's simply because they have no living brains, and thus no brain activity. Can't mess with the thoughts and actions of a critter when they have no working greymatter to manipulate. A vampire's got brains, but they're dead and inactive, so mind-affecting stuff can't do anything with the dead brain cells and their lack of activity.
Same reason why constructs are immune to mind-affecting effects; they lack any kind of living brain tissue, so no electrochemical organic processes to manipulate, let alone glands.
Undead only think and act through their soul and the manipulative forces of negative energy/necromantic magic that animates their corpse/spirit.
That is an interesting approach. But the problem is, Elementals are NOT immune to mind-affecting effects. Surely a large mass of Fire should not have grey tissues.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
That is an interesting approach. But the problem is, Elementals are NOT immune to mind-affecting effects. Surely a large mass of Fire should not have grey tissues.
Elementals aren't completely empty though.
Otherwise a nonmagical sword wouldn't cut them.
__________________ "If you can't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you."
and
"Go beyond the impossible, and kick reason to the curb" Kamina, from Gurren Lagann
That is an interesting approach. But the problem is, Elementals are NOT immune to mind-affecting effects. Surely a large mass of Fire should not have grey tissues.
That's not a problem with the explanation, but rather that you're trying to apply it to something different.
I have the same view on why Undead (whether mindless or not, their brains do not dictate their actions, but rather the negative energy that empowers them to be animate - which is why necromancy spells can change the way undead act) are not affected by mind-affecting effects.
Elementals may have a different reason as to why they are affected by mind-affecting. Just because undead have a reason they are immune to mind-affecting effects does not mean that all things that share some things in common (such as being immune to critical hits) must be within the same group and use the same reasoning. (In otherwords, just because 2 and 9 are both positive numbers, it does not mean that they are both even numbers because there exist even positive numbers)
One hint as to why the designers made elementals not immune to mind-affecting abilities could be due to the fact that they actually have a living body, even if it's partially composed of an element.
I see the difference between a living mind and an undead mind much like the difference between a live musical performance and a recorded performance. One is just an echo of the other.
That is an interesting approach. But the problem is, Elementals are NOT immune to mind-affecting effects. Surely a large mass of Fire should not have grey tissues.
No they aren't. It is a common misunderstanding. But while they are Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, and stunning, they are not immune to mind affecting effects.
__________________ Shin Okada (AKA Japanese Protocol Droid) My Webpage
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